Well NTB has retail stores with nothing more than a few display tires and Point of Sale fixtures. There are no techs or shop equipment. It's called Roll. They will change your tires at your office, home, shopping lot, soccer field. There is a market shift toward service. Either adapt or fall behind. You can have a dealer on wheels now partnering with the right customers and beyond that, the percentage of vehicle repairs that can be done remotely is increasing quickly. These new cars are equipped with capabilities not limited by hardware but by software speeds our current infrastructure cannot support yet. Vehicles are just software upgrades away from driving fully autonomous now, when our roads can support the technology the software will be updated and capabilities unlocked. We are at least 70 percent mobile capable now and working on fully capable on a segment of procedures remotely.

We are not sure how Belron could make such a claim, based on the research we have conducted.

From our enquiries the dealers inform us that the re calibration takes 3/4 hours. I would be very surprised if the procedure actually takes this long, however, I guess they must state this to justify the $400 AU price tag they are quoting for the reset.

During our research none of the dealers technicians would/could actually tell us exactly what what the step by step procedure was to re calibrate, since 4 hours seemed like an awful long time to be busy working on a single procedure.

We predict these anti collision cameras/lane change cameras could be a problem going forward. No just for us technicians, but for vehicle owners too. We had a recent case of a lady with a Mazda CX5 (an average family SUV) with these cameras attached to the windscreen. The cost to replace with genuine glass, installation and calibration, was going to cost $2800 AU. Almost 10% of the vehicles retail value.

There is some talk online of successful generic installs without calibration to save the customer money. However, we feel that without a factory/dealer approved re calibration you are putting your shop at risk of possible law suits. These cameras will automatically brake the vehicle if it senses that it is too close to the vehicle in front. For this reason we feel it necessary to have calibration performed after each install.

When you install a replacement windscreen, even a genuine one, it is near impossible to set it to the exact millimeter of the factory set one. Your install can vary in height and centre alignment. A millimeter difference at the windscreen could be amplified to several metres 50 metres down the road where the camera is scanning. This could cause the vehicle to misread a situation and cause the vehicle to brake automatically. If an accident occurs as a result of this you have to wonder who would be at fault legally.

Personally I think this technology is going to cause unnecessary expense and inconvenience to customers and after all said and done, who really wants a vehicle that brakes on its own?

As a footnote there seems to be two different styles. One used by Subaru that have the cameras mounted on the inside of the roof. In this case the cameras are not being moved or disturbed in any way. We feel that this style would not require any re calibration.

The others style used by Mercedes, BMW, Mazda etc are attached to the windscreen and have to be disturbed. We feel these would have to be re calibrated to insure they are pointing were they should. In addition the dealers have pointed out that warranties could be void if OE parts are not used and calibration not performed.

You have to hand it to the marketing teams at the manufactures. They are slowly finding effective ways of getting there vehicles back to their workshops. Soon they will be asking us technicians to go over to their dealership to install these windscreens for $100 and then they will be billing them out the front door at $3k.

YEP we sure do

Cant wait for a recalibration to become the law when you change a windshield. So S-lite will be making $ and the Indy's will have to pony up the 6k are so for the equipment or not touch those cars. Yes We can do it now Start saving up boys!

An update on information in this area.

It appears that calibration equipment is available for Auto Glass companies to purchase. I have personally witnessed the equipment starting to appear in larger organisations workshops.

However, there is still a large problem that companies seem to be conveniently ignoring. That is that ADAS calibration aside, if you install a generic ADAS windscreen into a vehicle that is under manufactures warranty, the warranty is then void. This we know for sure, as we have spoken to several manufacturer dealers all with the same answer.

Dealers will calibrate a genuine ADAS sensor installed on a generic glass, however, there is no warranty on the service provided and the vehicle warranty becomes void if problems arise with the ADAS System.

Also, since most vehicle computer systems are linked together into a central unit, if a problem arises anywhere else, even if its not related to the ADAS, chances are the dealer will walk away too, because of the generic part in the loop.

Think of it like your personal Mac Computer (the central unit), then you have a mouse, keyboard, printer, scanner etc. If you decide to change your mouse for a generic part, then you do so at your own risk. Any problems with the mouse, or the rest of the system for that matter, will then be blamed on the generic link.

We all know this is nonsense and it's very likely there will be no problems with the system even if a generic part is used. We would also like to point out here that we are not bashing the generic products either. We use these parts too and the quality, for the most part is acceptable. However, this is for the customer to decide, not us and certainly not insurance groups. If a customer wants to take the risk, fine. However, full disclosure must be provided to the customer, only then can the customer make an informed decision.

The main problem as always is insurance claims. Insurance groups are instructing their "preferred networks" to install generic glass and conveniently forgetting to inform the customer. Again, we have no problem with the generic glass quality, its a manufacture warranty issue here thats the point.

We however, do not follow insurance orders, as we only follow correct procedures based on quality, safety, ethics and legal. We don't skip these processes to line the pockets of executives who care not for the policy holder.

I would like to end this longer than intended post by pointing out to the self elected Auto Glass Councils, Institutes and Groups who may be reading this. These are the kinds of issues that you should be broadcasting, it should not be left to smaller independents like us.

We now have an Auto Glass Association (AGA) in Australia, but how are we to take it seriously if these debates are constantly ignored? Then again, the board of directors of the AGA, the guys who want to control the industry in Australia, consist of both generic auto glass suppliers and all the national insurance network suppliers. So it's fair to say there could be a conflict of interest here, hence the lack of enthusiasm to want to implement any of the above.

Personally I feel these groups have lost touch with reality in the process of getting larger. Just because a company is larger than another does not mean its better. Best is based on quality, safety and ethics. Speed, size and productivity has nothing to do with it. As an independent you should decide who you are in the industry. A fine independent Michelin Star Restaurant providing quality and service, or a McDonalds selling scrotum burgers in a paper dish.

Interesting thread. I have wrote extensively on this issue here on my blog and in other articles. Here is what is true, Safelite can do whatever they want to do because they own their business and have enough money to be capable to withstand a liability claim. There is power in having billions of dollars in revenue. They do have a calibration system that has been working very well in Europe but there were some more hoops they had to jump through here in the U.S. Which is why there was such a delay in beginning their program. Yes, they do have to get the proprietary info from the car makers but they have the money and the power to do it and they have. Period.

Bottom line. Will their calibrations be as good as the dealers themselves? We won't know until they have a rash of failures. But they don't care, they have the money and power to withstand a few lawsuits. They are constantly in court anyway, what does a few more suits mean to them. Very little. Only if a few deaths or serious injuries occur, heaven forbid, will half-assed calibrations be an issue.

Now, to the points related to mobile calibrations. There are dynamic and static calibrations. Some can be done easily with a portable tool and others that will require more involved tools, procedures and requirements that mobile service does not allow. I believe that in Europe, most installations are shop only and calibrations are done easily because of the environment. Here our customers demand mobile service and calibrations done on a mobile basis may not be possible. We'll have to see what happens.

The best way to beat the 800lb gorilla in the room is to own your own market and out last them.

Just my thoughts, take them for what their worth.

"The best way to beat the 800lb gorilla in the room is to own your own market and out last them."
Thanks for being so candid, this is very hard to do when they involve themselves in every aspect of our businesses.
This needs to change.

i was in Obriens (belron) last week. They had lovely pamphlets detailing what calibration was,etc, for the customers to read. One thing i noticed is they recommend recalibration be done every year. Or earlier if the vehicle has an "event"... im assuming an event could be a small fender bender, big pot hole, solar eclipse.... Seems to me there is a legal out for obriens there.

You must be under the impression that all of us "indies" are running on a shoestring budget. Keep in mind that you can get a Subaru recalibrated by the dealer for appx 50$. See how long you're able to fool all the insurance companies by overcharging.

AGP
Before you comment.. do you know what the Auto Maker Recommends on cars needing recalibration? how often and when?

Bob,

Is there any publication that shows which vehicles need which type of calibration?

Thanks for an excellent post, Service 8.

Bob B, to Ira's request, many would like to see a list, not that you're the man responsible to provide one, but your insight on that would be interesting to hear.

Personally, having had some GM info handed to me of late, that "some" GM's do not require recalibration, or rather that they are "self" recalibrating, I found that info very interesting and want more of it.

I would point out clearly I used the word "some" GMs, even though the info clearly implied "all" GM's, that it wasn't, in fact, clearly stated as "all" GM's were self calibrating.

My personal view is that if the car has to deal with rain, snow, bugs, ice, fog, dirt, curves, slopes, hill & dale's, ect ect, then it should be able to deal with a WS replacement, unless the glass is not meeting a simply clarity/distortion requirement.

Otherwise, these systems simply weren't ready for prime time.

JMHNLO

We have found the same thing where "most" of them recalibrate on their own. DONT turn the key on if you have something disconnected is the BIG issue! When you turn the key on when any of the devices are disconected it sends info to the computer and its looking for the last recoed of operation and this will deffinately screw it up because its comparing it to the last usage per say. Collisions are where the vehicle definately needs re-calibrated because then the frame of vehicle could be out of whack at this point or the system is no longer level.
A list of vehicles that truely need re-calibrated is the only answer but no dealer wants to give their service bulletins out so that glass shops have something in writing thats says "NO-CALIBRATION NECCESSARY" is the problem.

I don't know about you folks "down under" but here in the U.S. people just look for the opportunity to sue, and there are lawyers just looking for victims to "help".

Once the legal community finds out about recalibration, the lawsuits will start. JMHO

I understand your point but......

I believe it is against federal law, here in the states, to disable or bypass any safety device that was installed in the vehicle.

Here in the states we have TV ads from law firms that beg you to contact them if there is any slight possibility that you have a case for a lawsuit.

To show how ridiculous it is, there was a case where a woman sued ( and won) a case where she tripped over a child who was running around the store she was in. It was HER child !

These are secondary safety devices (adas) and can be turned off.
which means the car can and will be driven without them.
Primary Safety device like Seatbelt drivers airbag and not be disabled.

I imagine a future sinario where someone disables this feature and runs into someone, they die and it is found without a doubt, the adas would have resulted in no accident. Turning them off will become a non option soon, and disabling them will become a crime of liability. Just what happened to airbags and seat belts back in the day (**** Im old)
I sure wish Bosch/OTC, or texa would get off their ass and release to the public their system. I am about to pull the trigger on the Optiaim for 15k, the european versions like texa are 6k, just half, thats all and their system can be upscaled to do other automotive diagnostics. Optiaim would give me no information if theirs would offer other options. 1200$ a year subscription to just do one thing.

check optiaim real customers b4 spending. run away.

WOW. Ok if anyone thinks these systems are NOT the proto type for the up coming self drive raise your hand. Do you really think Joe citizen would jump into a self drive car flat out if it rolled out today. NO. You have to acclimate them SLOWLY. The public is as skittish as a sheep at a Wolf convention. There was an article about this a while back. They have this all planned out. Park sensors, self brake, lane departure, infer red for live obstacles, (DEER, PEOPLE, DOGS and cats). Car to car talk, 360 cameras all part of the build up to self drive.
If you touch it you own it period. Better wear body armor underwear. It gets warm when you are being thrown under the Bus when Sht hits the fan because the system failed. Ask the shop in Cali about there State Farm partner they had as a DRP shop.
I know this is an odd Idea. Vin every W/S. Sell only to Licensed purchasers. This includes the china express guys at your local salvage yards. Will it stop hacks. Maybe, maybe not. IT will track them and make it SOOOO much easier for the lawyers to chew them up and spit them out. They will start small and they will work their way up the chain. YES YOU WILL HAVE TO DO MORE. If you thin the heard you have more to gain they letting them run free. YA YA YA IT'S TO HARD TO DO THAT> B U L L. If they can make you car stop with out you. I would think with todays tech we could code W/S for tracking.
The big issue is not about the shop's. It's what BIG insurance will do. IF the Auto Glass Industry wants a fighting chance. WE, YOU, I HAVE to show how it is in THEIR best interest to get on board. It took the auto body Guys about 5 yrs to get the Insurance guys to start to understand the PRE/POST scan dangers of denying to pay for the FACTORY protocol. They are not there yet but it is at the point aftermarket has began pushing tech to shops for that purpose only.
JMHNLO
J.A.D.
DON'T care what you want to cry about just venting.

If you consider how many shops do not even have software, you can imagine the amount that will close because they would not adapt?

BYE BYE back of the truck guy

You do know you can get a OTC that does this right?

OTC has a very limited range and no instructions or targets. You get what you pay for.

OUR COMPANY HAS NOW OFFERED A TECH TO COME BY APPOINTMENT THE INSURANCE PICKS UP THE TAB . The set up consists of strings intersecting in a diamond pattern. the calibration is set up through the obd system . the different tints and shades vary from manufacturer thus the calibration is needed for the camera to accept the parameters of the series of tests. a reflective sign is placed on the intersection of the diamond pattern once all tests are done the system send a printout validation of the results . The calibration works during months that are not hindered by snow or ice on the roads . from my understanding this system is worth over 30 thousand canadian plus training time for the tech

Belron has bought into a European system with flaws of not being north american or Asian friendly by racing to be in front they over looked some aspects of the problem. Industry insiders claim these system will be standard on all cars by 2020

They all ready are pretty much standard
the most basic of car has them

by the way did you realize this thread started almost 4 years ago

Here are the facts:

"S-Lite" signed a contract with Bosch to use their calibration tool, and it didn't work out did it?! So you "Big Boys" wasted MILLIONS and are now fumbling to find a solution. In this time the "Indy" shops are already calibrating cars!

All your TPA steering, Lying to customers, using refurbished glass and telling customers that glass shops went "out of business" or "you bought them" won't help you now.
And don't forget the bait and switch where you show up and all of a sudden the customer needs a molding and a rain sensor or even worse, masterbating in his van.

Your company's business practices need to be severely reviewed by the Federal Government. The good news is that there is already a law for that!

In the mean time you are not calibrating and we are! HAHAHA

P.S. The SNL skit perfectly depicts your company... Scum

I love it when people who don't work for SL comment on their business.
Nothing you said is true.

the current system SL uses is fine. SL has been recalibrating since 2016 earlier in Europe.

SL system can recal more vehicles than any system available to anyone.
....and its not for sale.
As far as the other things you said on here low class just low class and uninformed at that.

Bye Felicia

Ah, wrong. Belsafe's re-calibration tool will be available for sale in the US next year. It seems Belsafe's "exclusivity" runs out at the end of this year. The price will allegedly be less than $5000. Problem is that Bosch (Belsafe's buddy) will not indemnify any user. It will not provide any "targets" for "static" re-cals. It will not have the proper codes for newer models. It admits that its tool cannot re-calibrate all vehicles. And it will not print pre or post calibration measures. And any purchaser/licensee must acknowledge these limitations in writing.

Can anyone spell "liability waiting to happen"?

Furthermore, if pressed, the Bosch folks will admit that their expected "push" in the good old USA is time sensitive. Seems they have heard about self-calibrating systems becoming the norm.

But hey, what do I know....

You know nothing
wrong information wrong wrong wrong

Honestly, our current policy involves a waiver acknowledging that it is solely the customers responsibility to make a trip to their dealership to be recalibrated after install. We as a shop take no responsibility for the recalibration process or anything that may go wrong as a result of the customer not having this work completed in a timely fashion after install. As for non OEM Parts. Ive already had this problem in the front office. Ins companies won't authorize glass for install unless it is the dealer part BC they can't guarantee that the "non oem glass" will calibrate correctly. Then we have to get authorization for the dealer part anyway. Talk about a PITA. The last one we ordered in was not OEM and calibrated perfectly after the fact but her insurance wouldn't cover the cost BC it was not an OEM part.

I love it love it. Point on:-)))))))))

No Belron can not do Calibrations on the spot!!!!! only in a shop under a controlled environment also they can not do all cars they are limited to what models they can due!!! so it is just a lot of BS for marketing to the Insurance Industry.

not true once again a person speaking about Big s who doesn't work there.

we ARE doing mobile recalibration.

I worked with S-lite for 17+ years from tech to management. They will do what ever it takes to get a job in there system. Big wings came through regularly to make sure we tell customers that we only use OEE glass, but will have the SGC logo on it. Which is BS. Now that I'm on my own recertified and AGROSS certified ect. And I refuse to get on board to there preferred provider program they tell my customers that call in that they will not warranty any work preformed on there car. Even if I agree to get on board with there program they still don't warranty the work performed by another company period. Going back recalibration, S-lite definitely has to do a recalibration on every car that has the lane departure camera on the windshield because it's not a true OE glass but an SGC AFTERMARKET GLASS period, no matter how they work it. If a camera is mounted to the glass most of the time it does need recalibration, no way to tell until until it until it's not working properly.

Food for thought. With almost every certification that S-lite had to offer I had, when I left the BS behind and went on my own, why do the insurance companies not honor all the certifications I had with them??? I recertified with several of the certifications they honored and none of the certifications from S-lite were anywhere on the list?

Last thing. Pilkington is the OE manufacture for most of Toyota now. So if I use pilkington glass on a Toyota that has pilkington name under Toyota, wouldn't that be putting a OE manufactured glass back in? And yes I do under stand it's no quite the same as using the dealer OE glass which has Toyota on it but still made by the same manufacturer pilkington.

Problem being unless the dot code states that it is OEM glass it won’t recal the camera 17-current @ the dealer for Toyota. Then there is the problem of the manufacturer voiding the vehicles warranty if other than OEM is used on models with adas systems. Subaru had a huge bulletin on this a year ago or so for vehicles with eyesight systems. Then bmw & gm are self calibrating. Looking into the opti aim my self. But for the most part I try to setup replacement at the local dealership so it can be calibrated as soon as I’m done. My biggest concern is my customers safety and there investment.

Isn't it illegal to operate an electronic device while operating a motor vehicle? I wouldn't want you driving my car

To speak to "B"ron or "S"lites ability to withstand some lawsuits... I have witnessed on many occasions the Das1000 show successful calibration screen which is all that is required to get paid by insurance here. I am a TECHNICIAN and know my trade so I do my research and keep informed. This scanner gives you the "XY" coordinates and I can tell you without a doubt that vehicles at great numbers are being given back to customers without proper calibration and substantially out of range of OEM spec. That being said the dealers cant be fully trusted to complete these calibrations either. I have to assume and hope that the engineers who are designing these systems are allowing the vehicle to recalibrate themselves as the software is already installed in the vehicle and we merely trigger it to recalibrate on demand... I HOPE.