Now that Belron has announced that they will be able to calibrate on the spot, what is everyone doing right now about it?
they are blowing smoke... there are dealers don't know how/haven't done calibration.
The technology is owned by the manufacturer's, anyone believe they gave that to the big s?
Can't do a calibration on the spot mobile. If they say they can, it's just smoke and mirrors. You need a flat, level area to do calibrations.The equipment is expensive (not an issue for them) but you need a trained Tech to do it.
I had a 2014 ford explorer that was stolen and they ripped rear view mirror off when they dumped the vehicle the miiror is $1500 list.I had ford dealer recalibrate 3.5 hrs.@ $95/hr.The tech said they have to drive 30 miles without stopping with a solid white line on side of road plus there time recalibrating on ford computer.
you need to read the article in agrr mag on re calib adas systems.
you are making comments and need a bit more education.
to say that the dealers own this tech is information that was true maybe a year ago, but not now.
the big B is already doing recalib in Europe.
Where i my comment did I say Dealers own this tech?
We are not sure how Belron could make such a claim, based on the research we have conducted.
From our enquiries the dealers inform us that the re calibration takes 3/4 hours. I would be very surprised if the procedure actually takes this long, however, I guess they must state this to justify the $400 AU price tag they are quoting for the reset.
During our research none of the dealers technicians would/could actually tell us exactly what what the step by step procedure was to re calibrate, since 4 hours seemed like an awful long time to be busy working on a single procedure.
We predict these anti collision cameras/lane change cameras could be a problem going forward. No just for us technicians, but for vehicle owners too. We had a recent case of a lady with a Mazda CX5 (an average family SUV) with these cameras attached to the windscreen. The cost to replace with genuine glass, installation and calibration, was going to cost $2800 AU. Almost 10% of the vehicles retail value.
There is some talk online of successful generic installs without calibration to save the customer money. However, we feel that without a factory/dealer approved re calibration you are putting your shop at risk of possible law suits. These cameras will automatically brake the vehicle if it senses that it is too close to the vehicle in front. For this reason we feel it necessary to have calibration performed after each install.
When you install a replacement windscreen, even a genuine one, it is near impossible to set it to the exact millimeter of the factory set one. Your install can vary in height and centre alignment. A millimeter difference at the windscreen could be amplified to several metres 50 metres down the road where the camera is scanning. This could cause the vehicle to misread a situation and cause the vehicle to brake automatically. If an accident occurs as a result of this you have to wonder who would be at fault legally.
Personally I think this technology is going to cause unnecessary expense and inconvenience to customers and after all said and done, who really wants a vehicle that brakes on its own?
As a footnote there seems to be two different styles. One used by Subaru that have the cameras mounted on the inside of the roof. In this case the cameras are not being moved or disturbed in any way. We feel that this style would not require any re calibration.
The others style used by Mercedes, BMW, Mazda etc are attached to the windscreen and have to be disturbed. We feel these would have to be re calibrated to insure they are pointing were they should. In addition the dealers have pointed out that warranties could be void if OE parts are not used and calibration not performed.
You have to hand it to the marketing teams at the manufactures. They are slowly finding effective ways of getting there vehicles back to their workshops. Soon they will be asking us technicians to go over to their dealership to install these windscreens for $100 and then they will be billing them out the front door at $3k.
Well we got it.....you jealous
this is the best thing that is happening to our industry. IT will take the butchers out of this industry. my friends are recalibrating them in ny . THE TOOL IS ABOUT 15000 .00 DOLLARS . IT take up 1/2 HOUR TO RECALIBE. FIRST TIME WRITING,JUST READ WHAT EVERBODY SAYS AND I LOVE HOW NOBODY WANTS TO WORK TOGETHER . THEY DO NOT WANR MAKE THE INDUSTRY BETTER
Just out of curiosity, how do you come to the conclusion that recalibration will take the butchers out of this industry?
Will it stop people from contamination and poor bonding issues? How about flat out leak issues? Corrosion/priming issues? Stuffing/cowl jumping issues?
Just to name a few, of course.
Besides, wasn't AGRSS supposed to do what you think recalibration will?
Honest question, no sarcasm intended.
It never will! Only in the glass business is "mobile an option, if not a demand!" How does a CSR in Florida tell a consumer it can be done mobile when it's 5 degrees out? Why don't body shops pre paint a fender and install it in someone driveway? Why isn't Jiffy Lube doing mobile oil changes? Why doesn't Tires Plus replace tires at your office? When and how do we take back control of this industry. Suppliers sell everybody, consumers are uneducated. Insurers only care about their bottom line. When was the last increase in pricing? State Farm pays the same repair rate as it did in 1994???
I wish I would of saved my money when I was young.............
your answer is because the glass industry will always have bottom feeders
willing to do it cheaper and mobile.
Mobile because they don't have to have a building like a legit shop. If you don't have a building you have to go mobile.
The Mobile Genie can not be put back in the bottle.
However Recalib can and will be a game changer.
I think that it's inevitable that we do recalibration as long as we're doing mobile service. With the increase in technology that's placing a greater burden on the tech, the industry must evolve. In the field, we're dealing with more and more issues with windshields. Camera, sensors, heating elements, various antennas, etc. Add to this the increase in non reusable parts such as some side moldings, cowl panel clips, etc. In the end, the mobile tech will have a computer for recalibration and shops are going to have to allow proper time for these jobs to be completed. 2 and 3 hour installs may become the norm and it's possible that many cars cannot, and should not, be done mobile. Environmental factors such as dust on lens' and sensors may become critical. Try keeping pollen out during the Springtime after you've pulled a windshield.
As for the hacker's out there. They're always going to exist. As long as consumers want cheap, companies continue to focus on production, and proper education is not, and I stress NOT, being done by the industry, they'll continue on. The only way to get rid of them is time. We must stop and educate new techs properly and stop the price wars and Walmart mentality of quantity over quality and the Domino's Pizza 30 minutes or less (1 hour or less) garbage. The industry can change if it truly wants. It's has to.
Sorry.... Got on the Soapbox a bit
Well............ Let's get started!!!!!!!!!
All it's going to take is a coupe of lawsuits from accidents where the calibration, or lack of it, is to blame, and the fertilizer will definitely hit the ventilator.
YEP we sure do
Cant wait for a recalibration to become the law when you change a windshield. So S-lite will be making $ and the Indy's will have to pony up the 6k are so for the equipment or not touch those cars. Yes We can do it now Start saving up boys!
An update on information in this area.
It appears that calibration equipment is available for Auto Glass companies to purchase. I have personally witnessed the equipment starting to appear in larger organisations workshops.
However, there is still a large problem that companies seem to be conveniently ignoring. That is that ADAS calibration aside, if you install a generic ADAS windscreen into a vehicle that is under manufactures warranty, the warranty is then void. This we know for sure, as we have spoken to several manufacturer dealers all with the same answer.
Dealers will calibrate a genuine ADAS sensor installed on a generic glass, however, there is no warranty on the service provided and the vehicle warranty becomes void if problems arise with the ADAS System.
Also, since most vehicle computer systems are linked together into a central unit, if a problem arises anywhere else, even if its not related to the ADAS, chances are the dealer will walk away too, because of the generic part in the loop.
Think of it like your personal Mac Computer (the central unit), then you have a mouse, keyboard, printer, scanner etc. If you decide to change your mouse for a generic part, then you do so at your own risk. Any problems with the mouse, or the rest of the system for that matter, will then be blamed on the generic link.
We all know this is nonsense and it's very likely there will be no problems with the system even if a generic part is used. We would also like to point out here that we are not bashing the generic products either. We use these parts too and the quality, for the most part is acceptable. However, this is for the customer to decide, not us and certainly not insurance groups. If a customer wants to take the risk, fine. However, full disclosure must be provided to the customer, only then can the customer make an informed decision.
The main problem as always is insurance claims. Insurance groups are instructing their "preferred networks" to install generic glass and conveniently forgetting to inform the customer. Again, we have no problem with the generic glass quality, its a manufacture warranty issue here thats the point.
We however, do not follow insurance orders, as we only follow correct procedures based on quality, safety, ethics and legal. We don't skip these processes to line the pockets of executives who care not for the policy holder.
I would like to end this longer than intended post by pointing out to the self elected Auto Glass Councils, Institutes and Groups who may be reading this. These are the kinds of issues that you should be broadcasting, it should not be left to smaller independents like us.
We now have an Auto Glass Association (AGA) in Australia, but how are we to take it seriously if these debates are constantly ignored? Then again, the board of directors of the AGA, the guys who want to control the industry in Australia, consist of both generic auto glass suppliers and all the national insurance network suppliers. So it's fair to say there could be a conflict of interest here, hence the lack of enthusiasm to want to implement any of the above.
Personally I feel these groups have lost touch with reality in the process of getting larger. Just because a company is larger than another does not mean its better. Best is based on quality, safety and ethics. Speed, size and productivity has nothing to do with it. As an independent you should decide who you are in the industry. A fine independent Michelin Star Restaurant providing quality and service, or a McDonalds selling scrotum burgers in a paper dish.
Interesting thread. I have wrote extensively on this issue here on my blog and in other articles. Here is what is true, Safelite can do whatever they want to do because they own their business and have enough money to be capable to withstand a liability claim. There is power in having billions of dollars in revenue. They do have a calibration system that has been working very well in Europe but there were some more hoops they had to jump through here in the U.S. Which is why there was such a delay in beginning their program. Yes, they do have to get the proprietary info from the car makers but they have the money and the power to do it and they have. Period.
Bottom line. Will their calibrations be as good as the dealers themselves? We won't know until they have a rash of failures. But they don't care, they have the money and power to withstand a few lawsuits. They are constantly in court anyway, what does a few more suits mean to them. Very little. Only if a few deaths or serious injuries occur, heaven forbid, will half-assed calibrations be an issue.
Now, to the points related to mobile calibrations. There are dynamic and static calibrations. Some can be done easily with a portable tool and others that will require more involved tools, procedures and requirements that mobile service does not allow. I believe that in Europe, most installations are shop only and calibrations are done easily because of the environment. Here our customers demand mobile service and calibrations done on a mobile basis may not be possible. We'll have to see what happens.
The best way to beat the 800lb gorilla in the room is to own your own market and out last them.
Just my thoughts, take them for what their worth.
"The best way to beat the 800lb gorilla in the room is to own your own market and out last them."
Thanks for being so candid, this is very hard to do when they involve themselves in every aspect of our businesses.
This needs to change.
i was in Obriens (belron) last week. They had lovely pamphlets detailing what calibration was,etc, for the customers to read. One thing i noticed is they recommend recalibration be done every year. Or earlier if the vehicle has an "event"... im assuming an event could be a small fender bender, big pot hole, solar eclipse.... Seems to me there is a legal out for obriens there.
You must be under the impression that all of us "indies" are running on a shoestring budget. Keep in mind that you can get a Subaru recalibrated by the dealer for appx 50$. See how long you're able to fool all the insurance companies by overcharging.
Before you comment.. do you know what the Auto Maker Recommends on cars needing recalibration? how often and when?
Is there any publication that shows which vehicles need which type of calibration?
Thanks for an excellent post, Service 8.
Bob B, to Ira's request, many would like to see a list, not that you're the man responsible to provide one, but your insight on that would be interesting to hear.
Personally, having had some GM info handed to me of late, that "some" GM's do not require recalibration, or rather that they are "self" recalibrating, I found that info very interesting and want more of it.
I would point out clearly I used the word "some" GMs, even though the info clearly implied "all" GM's, that it wasn't, in fact, clearly stated as "all" GM's were self calibrating.
My personal view is that if the car has to deal with rain, snow, bugs, ice, fog, dirt, curves, slopes, hill & dale's, ect ect, then it should be able to deal with a WS replacement, unless the glass is not meeting a simply clarity/distortion requirement.
Otherwise, these systems simply weren't ready for prime time.
We have found the same thing where "most" of them recalibrate on their own. DONT turn the key on if you have something disconnected is the BIG issue! When you turn the key on when any of the devices are disconected it sends info to the computer and its looking for the last recoed of operation and this will deffinately screw it up because its comparing it to the last usage per say. Collisions are where the vehicle definately needs re-calibrated because then the frame of vehicle could be out of whack at this point or the system is no longer level.
A list of vehicles that truely need re-calibrated is the only answer but no dealer wants to give their service bulletins out so that glass shops have something in writing thats says "NO-CALIBRATION NECCESSARY" is the problem.
I don't know about you folks "down under" but here in the U.S. people just look for the opportunity to sue, and there are lawyers just looking for victims to "help".
Once the legal community finds out about recalibration, the lawsuits will start. JMHO
I understand your point but......
I believe it is against federal law, here in the states, to disable or bypass any safety device that was installed in the vehicle.
Here in the states we have TV ads from law firms that beg you to contact them if there is any slight possibility that you have a case for a lawsuit.
To show how ridiculous it is, there was a case where a woman sued ( and won) a case where she tripped over a child who was running around the store she was in. It was HER child !
These are secondary safety devices (adas) and can be turned off.
which means the car can and will be driven without them.
Primary Safety device like Seatbelt drivers airbag and not be disabled.
I imagine a future sinario where someone disables this feature and runs into someone, they die and it is found without a doubt, the adas would have resulted in no accident. Turning them off will become a non option soon, and disabling them will become a crime of liability. Just what happened to airbags and seat belts back in the day (**** Im old)
I sure wish Bosch/OTC, or texa would get off their ass and release to the public their system. I am about to pull the trigger on the Optiaim for 15k, the european versions like texa are 6k, just half, thats all and their system can be upscaled to do other automotive diagnostics. Optiaim would give me no information if theirs would offer other options. 1200$ a year subscription to just do one thing.
check optiaim real customers b4 spending. run away.
WOW. Ok if anyone thinks these systems are NOT the proto type for the up coming self drive raise your hand. Do you really think Joe citizen would jump into a self drive car flat out if it rolled out today. NO. You have to acclimate them SLOWLY. The public is as skittish as a sheep at a Wolf convention. There was an article about this a while back. They have this all planned out. Park sensors, self brake, lane departure, infer red for live obstacles, (DEER, PEOPLE, DOGS and cats). Car to car talk, 360 cameras all part of the build up to self drive.
If you touch it you own it period. Better wear body armor underwear. It gets warm when you are being thrown under the Bus when Sht hits the fan because the system failed. Ask the shop in Cali about there State Farm partner they had as a DRP shop.
I know this is an odd Idea. Vin every W/S. Sell only to Licensed purchasers. This includes the china express guys at your local salvage yards. Will it stop hacks. Maybe, maybe not. IT will track them and make it SOOOO much easier for the lawyers to chew them up and spit them out. They will start small and they will work their way up the chain. YES YOU WILL HAVE TO DO MORE. If you thin the heard you have more to gain they letting them run free. YA YA YA IT'S TO HARD TO DO THAT> B U L L. If they can make you car stop with out you. I would think with todays tech we could code W/S for tracking.
The big issue is not about the shop's. It's what BIG insurance will do. IF the Auto Glass Industry wants a fighting chance. WE, YOU, I HAVE to show how it is in THEIR best interest to get on board. It took the auto body Guys about 5 yrs to get the Insurance guys to start to understand the PRE/POST scan dangers of denying to pay for the FACTORY protocol. They are not there yet but it is at the point aftermarket has began pushing tech to shops for that purpose only.
DON'T care what you want to cry about just venting.
If you consider how many shops do not even have software, you can imagine the amount that will close because they would not adapt?
BYE BYE back of the truck guy
You do know you can get a OTC that does this right?
OTC has a very limited range and no instructions or targets. You get what you pay for.
OUR COMPANY HAS NOW OFFERED A TECH TO COME BY APPOINTMENT THE INSURANCE PICKS UP THE TAB . The set up consists of strings intersecting in a diamond pattern. the calibration is set up through the obd system . the different tints and shades vary from manufacturer thus the calibration is needed for the camera to accept the parameters of the series of tests. a reflective sign is placed on the intersection of the diamond pattern once all tests are done the system send a printout validation of the results . The calibration works during months that are not hindered by snow or ice on the roads . from my understanding this system is worth over 30 thousand canadian plus training time for the tech
Belron has bought into a European system with flaws of not being north american or Asian friendly by racing to be in front they over looked some aspects of the problem. Industry insiders claim these system will be standard on all cars by 2020
these systems are driver assist not auto pilot therefore a tech cant be held liable with th proper waiver . plus a tech can change glass then have vehicle sent to a qualified calibration centre. Only way to rid butchers from the trade is to have pride in your instalation and follow manufacturers directions . Educating your customer is also a great way to show people what they are getting for their money
They all ready are pretty much standard
the most basic of car has them
by the way did you realize this thread started almost 4 years ago
Here are the facts:
"S-Lite" signed a contract with Bosch to use their calibration tool, and it didn't work out did it?! So you "Big Boys" wasted MILLIONS and are now fumbling to find a solution. In this time the "Indy" shops are already calibrating cars!
All your TPA steering, Lying to customers, using refurbished glass and telling customers that glass shops went "out of business" or "you bought them" won't help you now.
And don't forget the bait and switch where you show up and all of a sudden the customer needs a molding and a rain sensor or even worse, masterbating in his van.
Your company's business practices need to be severely reviewed by the Federal Government. The good news is that there is already a law for that!
In the mean time you are not calibrating and we are! HAHAHA
P.S. The SNL skit perfectly depicts your company... Scum
I love it when people who don't work for SL comment on their business.
Nothing you said is true.
the current system SL uses is fine. SL has been recalibrating since 2016 earlier in Europe.
SL system can recal more vehicles than any system available to anyone.
....and its not for sale.
As far as the other things you said on here low class just low class and uninformed at that.
Ah, wrong. Belsafe's re-calibration tool will be available for sale in the US next year. It seems Belsafe's "exclusivity" runs out at the end of this year. The price will allegedly be less than $5000. Problem is that Bosch (Belsafe's buddy) will not indemnify any user. It will not provide any "targets" for "static" re-cals. It will not have the proper codes for newer models. It admits that its tool cannot re-calibrate all vehicles. And it will not print pre or post calibration measures. And any purchaser/licensee must acknowledge these limitations in writing.
Can anyone spell "liability waiting to happen"?
Furthermore, if pressed, the Bosch folks will admit that their expected "push" in the good old USA is time sensitive. Seems they have heard about self-calibrating systems becoming the norm.
But hey, what do I know....
You know nothing
wrong information wrong wrong wrong
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