Ok so I have a friend that is building a show car that he is not going to drive he wants to add a frit to the glass, told him simple just paint on with Sika primer and put in with urethane, However oh no he does not want urethane he wants butyl! so no I told him that I think its not right to put butyl in a car these days?

If it is ok , then what kinda butyl will stick to what can he paint on the glass? Just looking for suggestions to help him, personally i think no urethane = not smart.

Black paint the glass but leave last 1/2" glass unpainted. Use butyl primer ther & bring up to paint. Then use your tape & you would be good to go.

Thats a good Idea Sglass.I personally dont trust the painted on frit bands to much,since you can just scrape it rite off.Makes me wonder about the urethane pulling it off the glass if something ever happened...

Besides where do you get Butyl tape kits these days??Maybe Somma and Macca ??? All we can get these days is Butyl core tae for sliders and some side glass thatis bolted in...

WE worked on a 1965 Chevy Chevelle about four years ago on the back glass when they did the headliner it did not look to good across the top outside looking in so we r&i b/glass paint black frit with paint install and about ten weeks later they call back paint peeling so we r&i again. I had a thought called the local pinstriper he came by and he cut striping tape and made frit on inside of b/glass leaving room for kit still there today and looking good!!!.Just thought I would tell ya.

thank you all

Scuff the glass with a lite scuff from a 3m scuff pad we use the red ones. Then prime the glass with what ever primer you use . install w/ thane and your done. We have never had an issue with the primer coming off.

Fact we do it on heavy equipment when we cut the glass and in the last 10 yrs no issues.

I did however have a 1978 Trans Am that I owned and when they tinted the back glass they couldn't get the curve just right so they used a black vinyl sticker to take up the space. When we cut it out to repaint the car I had the same thing done on the windshield and back glass. I had the car 6 years after the paint was redone,won a lot of trophies with that car. Sold it back in 06 to my cousin who still has it and no issues with the black vinyl stickers.


If you prep the glass like sika and dow tell you to than use the primer to paint the band on . You shouldn't have any issues.

As far as getting a tape kit w/o the foam core go to Autozone you have to ask for them but they keep the 3M in back. They are about $8.

The frit or the butyle arent orignal why would he do that? Lose points at a show for small details. need marcy foam dam and thane.

This is what we think we know. 1, The frit is there to protect the urethane. 2, All windshields must be installed with urethane according to AGRSS. If these are true, all windshields should have a frit on them.
Now if you go back to the early 70's, Ford started putting on a frit on the Torino and LTD cars to hide the sealer(butyl) and it made the installed glass look clean. We reciently put in a PPG/PGW DW 798 GBN. The glass had the frit at the bottom but not on the sides and top. It also had a mirror dot frit(to protect the bracket?). Original windshields did not have the mirror dot. So why is this important and the rest of the frit not? Is the frit cosmetic or does it really protect the urethane??

Oh I agree, some people. And lee good question.

If you intend to show the car try to find an original piece of glass to use. PGW or Pilk may have it through their Vintage and Classic groups. If not as someone stated you will lose points. The frit on the current glass is used to reduce the effects the UV rays(sun) has on the urethane and the adhesion.

You will never find an original glass. Original being the key word. If you want a copy you can find these. We have Pilk Classics do this for us. They use there Mexican plant to make the glass (w/s) and date code it in the USA. I haven't bought from PGW in a while. Is the classic division still open??

I just found this primer Bulldog® Adhesion Promoter. It goes on clear and dries in 5 minutes. We do a lot of frit painting and have been having trouble with the paint and urethane primer staying stuck to the glass especially tempered glass. Hopefully this will solve this problem. So you ask why do we paint so many frits? When we make glass for vehicles it's glass only no frit and the tempered we get usually has no frit. This is also good for plastics. HTH

Lee as always your the best, instead of whining about something you always bring valuable information to the table.

The frit is actually a ceramic based paint that when applied during the manufacturing process bonds to the glass. This ensures the glass to frit and urethane will adhere properly and not fail. I cannot say that when painting a frit on the glass will not fail in a crash. Is it a chance worth taking?

Thats why I stated about painting the band on the outside.I was taught that urethane sticks best to raw glass.

The top and sides of the dw798 had metal moldings that blocked the sun, therefore no need for frit.

Why did you dig up this old post to tell us that a Ford Galaxy / Country Squire, DW798, has a chrome molding?? What exactly does this have to do with a Camaro?
Ooops...

You did not mention the year of the Camaro but I am assuming you mean the 60's or 70's model. First of all those models did not come with a frit on the windshield because urethane was not used in vehicles at that time. I would think any reputable show judge would spot this immediately! So far as the AGRSS standards go , since he is not going to be driving on the highway, urethane is not required. Urethane was not widely used in automobiles until 1980 when they started incorporating the windshield as part of the structure of the vehicle. I would use a 5/16 or 3/8 butyl on it, depending on how much pinchweld is left. This leaves a smooth clean line which should be hidden by the chrome moulding, as well as having an original appearance. You can get butyl at any auto glass distributor or paint supply store. Also in regards to the fords, they were installed with butyl up until 1980 and did not have a frit around the top and sides of the windshields.

urethane was used in the 60's & 70's on some models more so yet in the 70's but my understanding is as long as you put it back with what it had you're fine if it was butyl go back with butyl I used to use 5/16 on all domestic cars had to use 3/8 one day and found that it looked alot better trim fit wise so started using it on all domestic 1/4 on all foreign perfect trim fit ah the good o'l days.

Lee,

When painting a frit on glass, I will use a 120 grit silicon carbide and sandblast the glass. I have done that on both lami and tempered and it works great. Over the years, I had two different customers roll their front-end loaders over with substantial cab damage being the end result. The bond between glass and cab was intact. I have also replaced quite a few windows as repeat business on heavy equipment and have not experienced any bond failure issues. The sandblasting does not compromise tempered glass unless you have someone in the shop that decides they want to see just how far they can push the issue and start blasting full bore. hth, JCS

ANSI/AGRSS 002-2002
Automotive Glass Replacement Safety Standard
Section 5. Installation Standards – Adhesive Bonded

If the OEM installation was polyurethane, then the glass must be replaced with polyurethane or an equivalent adhesive bonding system.
If the OEM installation was butyl, polysulfide, or other non-polyurethane, and the vehicle is licensed for highway use, adhesive bonded stationary glass installations shall be performed using polyurethane or an equivalent retention system unless in conflict with current OEM specifications

Nope, you should NOT put back in a glass with butyl, the glass, when being installed, must be installed with urethane. The only exceptions are if the vehicle is deemed to be a collectible restoration and that is under rubber gaskets, nothing is noted under Adhesive Bonded.
Once again, it looks like that was an......
Ooops...

Correct. And Camaro windshields were never installed with butyl at the factory. GM used poly sulfide.

Ooops, if you read the AGRSS standard you posted it clearly states that if the vehicle is licensed for highway driving it must be installed with urethane. In this case, Larry clearly said that his friend was building a show car and would not be driving it, so butyl would be fine.

Old Glass Guy, if you would have read MY post, it is CLEARLY responding to glass express's post, that said, "but my understanding is as long as you put it back with what it had, you're fine, if it was butyl, go back with butyl". I was not replying to Larry, and yes, I can read. I originally thought that responding to Larry was like wizzing up a rope, because he posted this 5 YEARS AGO, and I did not think he would read it.
Now here is my response to Larry, by the way, just for "chitz and giggles". A DW688 was installed with, I believe, "thiakol" or polysulfide. Good luck finding that. A foam dam with urethane would be the closest you would get the factory set. If you chose to prime, prime "outside" the foam dam, on the very edge of the glass, so it would not be visible under the molding.
PS: Butyl was not used on older GM cars, Ford and Chrysler used butyl.
Ooops...

If you shoot a 3/8 tall urethane vee bead on the glass you will not disappoint your customers. If you need more thane in an area you can back seal at that area.

Sorry Ooops, but I am new to this forum and did not know that Larry posted this 5 years ago. I also assumed that everyone was chipping in their two cents to try to help answer his question and was not trying to suggest that you couldn't read! I am aware of the fact that older GM cars did not use butyl, but Larry said his friend wanted to use butyl, so I said that would be fine since he is not going to drive the car. My main point was that his friend wanted to paint on a visible frit and I was saying that as a show car, this would be noticed as not being original.

Thank you sir. I am very used to people only seeing parts and not all of the posts. Good Ole Larry's friend can sift through what we put on here, and if he did not do the car yet, he can do as he pleases. I personally did not like butyl, because everything would stick to it, dust papers etc., and if it got hot enough would almost turn into liquid (poor quality butyl). That is why I said foam dam and urethane.
Ooops...

oops every one that has a car that had butyl would deem it a classic restoration that doesn't mean you cant drive it. I don't really care anyway the only cars we see that had butyl are show cars but what about ford sliders and quarters does it matter their bolted also installed with foam core butyl.

I would hardly deem a 1985 Gran Fury (DW859), a 1978 Volare (DW859), a 1982 Ford Van (DW836), 1985 Mustang (DW900), or a 1982 Horizon (DW891), a classic car. Those are the ones that you would have to replace with urethane. As far as bolt in parts, they are not structurally integral parts of the vehicle, they are mechanically fastened parts, therefore they were sealed with foam core butyl and that is fine. The windshields require urethane, the bolt in parts do not.
Ooops...