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anybody get allstates new rates?

how in the world can their a and b markets be at 22 percent off nags list?

that is unbeliveable that anybody should be below list, especially with the atmosphere we find oursleves living in lately.

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

How can that be unbelievable when progressive and american funeral are at 43/40% off?

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

All these discounts are a joke....but there's always someone in a market accepting 'em.

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

If every job we did was 22% off NAGS we'd be loving life! What do you expect...full list? Get real, man!

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

YES JB GET REAL! Do we expect 0 off,,,, YES . Our cash and lowest pricing starts at 0 off nags and goes to +50 mark-up. 1 year ago we got up to +144 mark-up. The low ballers are not only cutting thier own throats but everyone elses! Nags rebalance was supposed to eliminate discounting and bring back proper LABOR. The only reason the pricing keeps going down is too many, maybe like you, who accept jobs for beer $$. So who should get REAL? ANYONE accepting discounting off the rediculous NAGS pricing is the problem, or are they just plain and simply not worth it for the work they do??,,, HMMMMM We don't accept discounting,, period!!!!!

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

XXX (And others)....How can all of ya complain and whine about NAGS list prices but still use that basis to counter and complain about "low-ballers" discounting down from NAGS? It makes no logical sense if you think about it.....most of us have a tough market to compete in and know what we need to charge to stay open, NAGS is irrelevant in regards to quoting..and in discussing quoting.

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

GLASSSGOD, I don't hear this as whinning, but if thats how you see it oh well. If you are not using nags what the heck are ya using???? We all know nags is a broken tool, but we are still forced to use it. I don't know how anyone can quote anything with out some type of guide to go by. And how is it you are getting paid by Ins co's without nags #'s and pricing. I would sure like to see that! I really do appreciate your opinions and input but this constant referance to whinning is really getting old. Most of us out here are discussing the issues. get off the WINE! maybe we all need to consume a bit Thanks again and I am really interested in how you operate without nags, I think we all could use a better tool! And it's not just as simple as cost plus, tpa's and ins co's are still going to pay from nags.

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

Thanks for asking the question XXX!!

I've been wondering too...how some of these people keep claiming to "quit using NAGS". I don't see how it's possible, when the insurance uses it as a basis. So, let's hear about it?

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

We only use NAGS for insurance pricing. Since NAGS has no bearing on our real costs for glass (or imagined costs for that matter ) we cannot rely on NAGS to quote cash pricing. We access our vendors websites, derive our costs, and quote based on those costs.
That is what really ****** me off about NAGS. We pay them for a tool to base pricing off of, but the pricing is useless to everyone but the insurance cos.
If you are basing your pricing off of NAGS how do you avoid getting burned by the HUGE number of parts that either cost more than the NAGS list or are within a few dollars? However NAGS derives its pricing, it doesnt work.

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

Get off the network, bill at your rate, get short paid and then sue the *******s!

(I would like to know if there is a way to do the first two, then actually get paid at your rate....)

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

From other posts I have read, Glassgod works a strictly cash market. This is the reason I believe he says NAGS is irrelevent. Obviously he does no insurance work. There is no way around it, just like there is no way around billing direct and getting paid by a network.

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

We have been in business in north texas for two and a half years and have done 21 insurance jobs in that time we have never joined any networks and don't plan on it .(Our customers request us to do the work ) we only use nags as a guide to determine if we should bill at the discounted rates or bill at our rates which ever we feel we will make the most profit off of, (so far we have only excepted the discounted rates three times).
As far as short pays go we record every phone call that comes into our shop we also let them know that we require our payment within 10 days and make shure we put that in the terms box on the invoice. (so far we have been paid within that time frame except for once W/ SGC they took 19 days and no short pays ever) Also they can't charge a processing fee if you do it our way.
I think if everyone would quite complaining and realize that you DO NOT have to join a network to get insurance work and you DO Not have to except the pricing they offer we would all be a little happier .[:)

Insurance jobs and cash pricing by market

XXX and all who brag about not dsicounting. All of you are correct in your own market. In Cincinnati it is very competative. We have the aftermarket lowballers such as SGC and D/Triumph and many great independents. But we are foced to discount our glass based on competition and all of us fight for the job including those of us who use OEM on everything and are certified and do great work(the first time). Saying you do not accept the netorks and only do 21 jobs in two years is not getting insurance without being on them. We do that amount in one day. Our cash market is still lower than our insurance because of competition not the insurance companies. You are right that we should not sell it for beer but when we don't sell it for a great tasting JUG of beer then our competition gets it and that does not mean just the hackers out there. Ther insurance companies now this and will continue to lower their prices until they see the cash market meets or exceeds their prices as it does in most industries.

I love this industry and I agree it is screwed up. we do not go off of nags when we accept a job but we do use it to bill out because it is what the ins people use. Like the other company, we go online with every job and look at our price first then make the call if we should do the insurance job or not. In most cases we do them and on a few dealer parts we do not. we do not want to buy a 3-700 piecs of glass to make 125 bucks off it and risk that much in cost if there is a problem. Those are not as common but more people are wanting dealer parts for their fancy cars and we have to try and sell them off it or we may not have a choice but to turn it down. I would love to be in a market that can charge list plus but in most major cities where their is large competition, you can not.

Re: Insurance jobs and cash pricing by market

Dave, I too love what I do and I totaly understand. I moved my family 2 times to get out of the big metro area and went to a very rural area because of the fierce competion. I do not intend to brag about not discounting, I have fought very hard to maintain profitable pricing and stay in the game. I have had to down size to the point of my wife and 1 son and 1 daughter partime, and I am the only full time person. I'm getting to the age that I will not be at this much longer, so I have the ability to accept only profitable work, or at least as best as I can. I believe if everyone would focus on quality and not quantity, our pricing would be alot better. But I do understand the mid to larger companies with several to many employees are kind of caught in a trap to maintain a level of work to keep thier guys going. I also believe if those companies would train their installers to become better at sales and market QUALITY and not do the fast cheap work, they would survive just fine. I realize our situations are completely different. I have also diversified from auto glass to ALL glass. Residential, flat, mirrors, thermos, etc. I will turn down network pricing, and thank goodness summer is coming because our flat glass is taking care of us, and we get to set OUR pricing. Here in Minnesota we get better pricing because enough shops have fought hard for "Fair and reasonable". In our market, the largest discount is -2 and I turn most of them down. Our average invoice goes out at +20- +60 from nags. We have a very nice main st location, do mostly in shop auto glass, and also with hard work and smart finacial management, just about have our place paid off. We have trimmed out all unneeded expences, so our low overhead gives us the ability to choose the profitable work and turn down the cheap. we just stay focused on quality,& service for our local area. I'm sure someone younger and more aggressive could could aim much higher. But this has not be an easy decision and we had to let go of our secretary, and now the wife and I do it all. But our aim right now is do less, the very best we can for more $$$. And some months we hope we will still be around for a few more. Again I did not intend to BRAG, every day is a new challenge, and we work very hard at being the best we can be and are willing to fight for true "FAIR" compensation for our work. It won't be long and I will be looking for someone much younger and physically fit to get thier family out of the big city, like I did, and take what I have built and do even better! Good luck to you, and to all of us in this GREAT industry.Thank you for your responses.

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

What makes this rate worse is that Allstate pays $35/hour labor, where Progressive and other Safelite insurance companies at least have a $40 base plus $30/hour.

Think about it, it would take an 8 hour job for the Allstate labor rate to pay the same as a Safelite job.

People may love this industry, but with the things going on it is not "great." It is screwed up.

Allstates rates used to be not the worst, but now they are down there with the scum companies like Progressive and Farmers.

Re: anybody get allstates new rates?

Finally have time for a response TM....the reason NAGS is irrelevant is because Am Fam and Progressive discount so freaking much off of it...why is that hard to understand? Our business is about 20% cash, the rest is body shops and car dealer service departments totalling another 70%, insurance around 10%. Since most of our body shops are direct repair operations for Am Fam and Progressive, we still are beholden to the SGC discounts, so we have to come in somewhere under the total allowed, or SGC knotheads take the job (we won't allow that, you do whatever ya want). That's why NAGS is irrelevant to me, but PPG and Pilk, etc. love NAGS, as do TPA's and insurance co's. Dave from Cincinnati is right about all of our differing markets...we're all very different in that respect.

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