I have had it with the disaster NAGS has caused with the rebalance. For anyone to say that it is not a problem or that we are responsible for the problems in our industry is outrageous. I have had my glass business and have been very sucessful for the last 15 years. The insurance industry exploited the rebalance and now many of us are below break-even. Prime example: DQ9407yp old list $1,743.00 new list $167.22. This is a joke and there are many other examples like this. NAGS is a big contributor to the problems, yet the IGA wants to push the same theories they have been pushing for years. When is someonone going to step up and face the real issues: short pays and the rebalance. I find it very interesting in talking to Jesse Herrera that he has no comments execept that it is working well. I encourage all of you to contact him at 619-530-8825 and voice your concerns. I encourage the IGA to look into this problem once and for all instead of ignoring it. For those of you that say it is a non-issue your living in another world. For Hal Hare to say that it is working well proves that it is working for the insurance industry.

I WROTE TO JESSE HERRERA WHEN THE NEW PRICING WENT INTO EFFECT, REGARDING THE ANTICIPATED NAGS UPDATE. I URGED HIM TO GIVE STRONG CONSIDERATION TO ADDING A FEE FOR MOBILE INSTALLATIONS. THE DRASTIC INCREASE IN FUEL COSTS THAT WE HAVE BEEN FORCED TO INCUR THAT ALREADY ERODED OUR SHRINKING BOTTOM LINE. I ALSO ASKED TO INCREASE IT MORE THAN NORMAL,ANY GLASS COMPANY KNOWS THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WILL DISCOUNT IT. WHAT REPLY DID I GET? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING/NONE/NADA
RL YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. IF EVERYBODY WOULD TAKE 5 MINUTES AND CALL OR WRITE A LETTER IT WOULD BE A START.

278.70 is list for DQ09407 YPY, but that is still ridiculous ...dealer list is over $500.00, my cost here from PPG or PILK is $192.00, installed for AMFAM is $286.00--I'd tell em to shove that job. West Bend Mutual would pay $400.00 thru the Quest Network.

The NAGS rebalence was pushed by the insurance companies so they could take bigger discounts and at the same time confuse the AGR business. It has been some time since the change and i can't find one glass shop who thinks it was a step in the right direction. Now the insurance companies continue to move the discounts deeper. I guess they felt 46% off nags would sound better than 69% off. And the real slap in the face is that PPG and others dont reconize the new change, sure you don't it doesnt benefit you.

I applaud the glass manufacturers for not using NAGS benchmarks any longer. At least someone in this industry finally had the ***** enough to tell NAGS that it is broken and they were not going to let NAGS destroy their profits and businesses.

More of us, the AGR companies, should do the same. Start telling the TPA, insurance companies, and software vendors you do not wish to use NAGS list pricing any longer. If you invoice from your actual costs, with evidence that you are doing such(using a manufacturer MSRP and your costs), do you really think there is any judge in the country that is going to FORCE you to use the NAGS list? The insurance companies only use NAGS because that is the benchmark the AGR industry uses and they will not change until none of us use it any longer.

STOP USING NAGS pricing !!!! NAGS pricing has no relevance in the AGR indsutry any more as most of you would agree with. The sooner we all stop using the NAGS list, the sooner we can get back to true "fair and reasonable" based on our real costs. And Mr. insurance company might acutally find out they are saving money on many of the most common AGR parts when an invoice is reflective of true costs and markup. Sounds crazy, but work a few jobs up at your real costs plus standard service industry markup and see what you think.

Have a great week everyone !

I dont' understand RL, what is it that you think IGA should do?

WE use NAGS by choice. All WE have to do is stop. Jessee's own words: If the product wasn't any good, no one would buy it.

Of course, he was roasted by many at the IGA conference when he and Bud said things like that.

Umble was set in front of everyone in a similar fashion, and it seems some were unhappy with his treatment, but no one seemd to think that the same treatment,(actually Bud and Jessee's session was even more heated than Umble's) was inappropriate for NAGS.

Again, what is it you think IGA should be doing?

I'm all ears on that one, because I, like many, agree with you. It's the part about what IGA should be doing I want to hear more about.

I don't want this to sound like the IGA is doing nothing, but I think more can be done on other issues besides steering. Steering is very important and I totally support the legal action brought against Safelite. I don't necessarily think it is the number one issue in the industry right now or even the second. NAGS and short pays is what are hurting the industry. My shop does too much work and I have been around too long to agree with others on this site that is not hurting us. I watched our companies average reimbursement drop 30-50% immediately after Feb 28th of 2005, so for others to say it didn’t hurt them, I say "BS." Shops with low cash prices do contribute but nothing close to the exploitation of the rebalance.

The IGA does a very good job and has definitely stepped it up in aggressiveness since Marc Anderson has taken over. I don't have the answers but I believe that there are strategies that should be looked at before a lot more shops go out of business. Has anyone from the IGA put any pressure or met with Herrera? The feedback I received and others is that he doesn't care and should be pressured. Has the IGA considered legal action against Safelite, Harmon, Lynx regarding price fixing? Has the IGA looked at legal action against individual insurers as a group? I think there are many options that have not been looked at and to focus all the efforts into steering is not going to solve any of the big problems. The rebalance is out of control, pricing is absolutely ridiculous and many of us will be out of business soon if it continues. At times I feel I am the only one fighting the rebalance and shortpays, Herrera states he very rarely gets calls. Many of the insurance company claims managers (including Hal) state they rarely get phone calls. Lets put some effort into this; the focus needs to be broadened.

What's interesting is that the insurance companys only recognize NAGS when it benefits them. I recently billed Allstate for a fw2136..Even though the NAGS list less our local discount is approx. $850, they will only pay $501 which is the dealer list price.
I've said this in several previous posts and stood and asked the question ,at the Milwaukee meeting ,to the NAGS "Dog and Pony Show"
How can you act as an independant third party administrator of our list prices when your parent company (Mitchell) largest customer, nationwide, is State Farm Ins?
THEY DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK...Stop wasting your time calling them!
If you want this to end...GET OFF THE NETWORKS!!

DR: We're in Milwaukke area too, just did a FW2136 for State Farm thru Lynx: $927.50 glass, $100.00 flat labor, $20.00 kit, authorized OE molding on website for $83.30, grand total $1130.80 plus tax, received full payment last week. Works for us, never had LYNX tell us in 7 years they won't pay off NAGS.

Me either...Not until this one..and we actually did 2 in the last two weeks..all Allstate will "allow" is the dealer list of $501. They will not recognize the NAGS list...All Lynx can do is to bill them for what their customer (Allstate) tells them..
Marc, if you are out "there", maybe you could ask Chuck and respond to the legality of this...

This is nothing new....some call it 'cherrypicking' an invoice.

NAGS is good to them, when it works for them, ex: Nags list is lower than OEM. But when the OEM list is lower, rare after the rebalance that I've seen, they go the other way.

There is only one way to describe practices such as this: intentionally manipulating their own rules to decrease the payment.

Don't take my word for it, next time you have one that is a dealer part, go after the same markup on the OEM part that you would normally get off the Nags list/discount. See what happens.

Try it in reverse too when you see one the other way. Point is, the rules are broken whenever it suits them, and "whenever" is defined by the monetary amount.

I think the legal begals call that "unjust enrichment".

As to Nags, the fact that the OEM suggest list is so different that the Nags list demonstrates that Nags has become an 'aftermarket parts' database, not representative of the entire parts market. Exactly what the insurers would want, now isn't it?

But hey, what do I know?

I hear you Mark I remember years ago one ins co would not pay their flat labor rate on a tempered part because the vent only called for .7 hrs would only pay $12. not the $35 for the flat tempered labor! When ever they fell they can save a buck they change the rules to fit them

i just did one also with state farm through lynx, no problems billing off nags price sent it EDI got approval for premium glass and dealer moulding online

You might get it now but look at what they have done in past.They have got the upper hand by lowering NAGS,alot of times below our costs.Yes they say labor will make up,bull look at past in 2 years they will lower labor back to $45 or $55 dolars and someone will go along.We have to stop lower NAGS,if dealer is 2X NAGS something is wrong.

BQA, how do you get approval for a premium part when the Farm wrote OEM parts out of the policy in 37 states?

Unless you aren't in one of the 37 states, or nobody else makes the part yet? And if the latter, how would the Farm know this online, unless somebody is telling them that it's not available but from OE?

Gee I wonder who that would be? So OE is OK providing PPG (or the Chinese) don't make it?

Mark 2: You go to LYNX' website for approval for premium parts...quick, easy, print your own auth...

i have never had any problems with premium authorizations just did a bmw also some thing takes about two minutes online

mark 2
i guess i don't really know what you are talking about

We hav ehad Lynx tell us via email ( request form for authorizations) that they have to "research it)

2-3 days goes by with NO reply till we just eat the cost of the rain sensor remount or whatever 40 dollar must have part was asked for.

Its different on the big items . We cant take it in the butt, so the insureds suffer due to lack of service on behalf of the fantastic insurance co's overpaid middle men .

I have turned down more euro-trash this past year than I have ever worked on in 19 years, because you cant make squat off 500 cost piece of glass on 60k automobiles. If I cant double my money on a 2005 Mercedes then forget it!

Glassgod(shawn is that you)?lurie?

markwink: It's Hack you doorknob!

You are not a glassgod!I am.

HEY GLASSSGOD --- YOU PAID $400.00 FOR THE GLASS(MAYBE MORE) & $75.00 FOR THE MOLDING -- & ABOUT $6.00 A TUBE FOR THE URETHANE -- GAS - SALARIES -- LIGHTS ETC. ---- CAN I RETIRE YET?

OH YEAH! --- MARKWINK ---- A GLASSSGOD? DUKE? EARL? PRINCE? JESTER FOR SURE!

IAE: I think I screwed up and got the fw2136 from PPG at 550.00....oops

IAE
where can you get urethane for $6?
let me know i want some

U400HV $4.75/tube

TSi, are you faxing Lynx your prrof of purchase? If I don't get a response in 24 hours from their approval department, I will send them another request every day until I get one. They will approve it, eventually! They expect you to give up and right it off but if you are persistant, they will authorize it.

Dont ever send your invoice copy.Will they send you what they charge the ins. co.?Thats why they know our costs and why they screw us but make their big $$.I tell them its not their bussiness.This is my bill,these are the charges.

bqa --- PPG believe it or not..... but it's U418HV -- not 400 ---

sika tack cool around $ 6.00

i guess i should of said quick cure, and i am in wyoming this is the first week we have had temps even close enough to use sika cool or 418 with acceptable drive times i can get some crl for $3 or go to home depot and get silicone for $1.99