Since no-one is complaining to Hal Maybe a new thread just on this 1 point may be useful. And rather than explain too much as to why lets see how many of us care to repond. I for 1 say it only works for the tpa's and ins co's. It's a broken TOOL!

XXX how do you look up parts, order them from a supplier, or tell your staff what parts to install in the caddy? Its pretty tough to communicate within the industry without NAGS. The pricing model is broken, not the numbering system.

It seems that the price worked with only a few problems until Mitchel bough NAGS. Now the pricing is hopeless in favor of the insurance side it is not only broken they want $150.00 for a fee to use it. We could go to dealer part prices like the rest of the car and use dealer price list to get a more realistic picture. They never sell a part for less than it cost them. NAGS could lower their fee and just do numbers and that would be OK but they can't do prices. I no longer get NAGS info from any of my suppliers, 2003 catalog and Feb 2005 prices. I won't pay to get information that will make me loose money, it just against my nature. I bought my first Mitchel books in 1965,they lost me from their base.

The new NAGS pricing does not work for us. #1 we cannot buy based on the new new Nags pricing.#2 the prices go down with each new publication, but the ins. co's dictate bigger discounts. with these unrealistic prices there should be no discounting at all.#3 the labor rates are too low, range from $20 to $35 per hour but yet the body shops are averaging $45 per hour. #4 $15 to $24 for urethane and primers and cleaners and other misc. supplies is unrealistically low. I beleive in fair and reasonable pricing, however we should not be dictated to by anyone. If these new nags prices are so good then please tell me why an Oem windshield with a list price of $450.00 has a Nags list price of $236.00. this is why many of us feel nags and the ins. co's are in bed together. These prices are surely not fair to us.

The way I look at it is, there are two problems and NAGS (pricing) is first of which. As I have stated before in this forum, I do not understand the methodology of the NAGS rebalancing pricing and to this date, I have not heard a satisfactory explanation. Flat-out, the current NAGS List prices do not have an understandable relationship to actual purchasing price.

The second problem is the fact that the insurance companies, with the aid of their TPA's, are dictating prices. The minute NAGS comes out with a change, every stinking insurance company out there starts issuing letters stating how they are going to pay. I do not need to tell any of you that the formula varies greatly depending upon the insurance company. Most take an already questionable "List" price and then discount it. NAGS states how many hours it takes to do the job and applies a price, then the insurance companies discount it. The problem isn't all NAGS, that's just the where the problems start.

Hal, with all due respect, I really do not think your company gives one rats ass about whether the NAGS pricing or whether the specific payment program your company offers works for the independent.

In case anyone missed my point: (1) No, NAGS (pricing) doesn't work and (2) HAL isn't working for you -he's working for his company. Insurance company's do not care if you are profitable or if you stay in business. They only care about themselves and only enough about their customers to make sure that they stay in business. So don't expect any of them to give a crap about us independents.

I agree that nags #1 priority is the insurance companies. Why else would they cut the prices of the most popular windshields. As for there labor times I think that they pull #'s out of a hat,ie.. dw1341 2.2hrs, dw1391 3.1. whitch one would you rather do? The windshields are getting bigger and the profits are getting smaller.

Hey guys, NAGS never makes a change without notifying the insurance companies first. Has anyone ever been approached to represent the AGR part of the equation? Not unless it was a company like hmmmm let's see SAFELITE? but then again do they represent AGR companies or the insurance companies? Strange bed fellows INDEED! ------------ someday we'll find out that Mitchel is owned by American Family or State Farm and being subsidized by Safelite

Proving your point to Hal is easy and is an easy answer, yes it is working for Hal. I have provided this info before, simply take invoices with the same parts before 2/28/05 and some post 2/28, the net result benefits State Auto in a big way. I encourage everyone to post examples of the net difference in savings with dates and part numbers. I have spoken to Hal personally and there was no reaction.

Let him tell us what is different for an invoice submitted on 2/27 and one on 3/1 with the same part. There is no difference in cost, yet a big difference in reimbursement. Lets get some facts posted!

m I agree. Every one has to use nags for the numbering system. we use glassmate. The pricing models are broken. the reason I started this thread was because Hal has more than once said no-one is complaining so it must be working. I was hoping to see a ton of people letting him know if nags is working for them or not.

When you havea pricing system with no compatability of any kind its a joke, not a help.

I agree with xxx, m, Bob, Bob G, ST, tom, IAE, TM, and J. You've all expressed and explained well!

I also think IAE has something with, "who Mitchell is owned by"...Someday, it will all be exposed! ~Western Wishes~

You all like to post but you sure don't like to research. Mitchell's ownership is stated right on their public web page. It's a private equity firm out of San Francisco. Lots of public info on them if you want to look it up, and they own lots of people.

http://www.mitchell.com/mitch/company/company.asp

Mr T, who put up the money in/behind this private equity firm?

We as "small business" owners/employees should STOP & take a look at what is happening. First N.A.G.S. is controled internaly we all know this, I never agreed with "sueing" Safelite for they only followed suit. What we should have done is searched for the control of "OUR OWN INDUSTRIE" this perhaps could have been done by creating restrictions on the insurance company's and or company's like safelite, but this can't be done unless we unite or accept full responsability for every one of our actions to strenghten this industrie we should be what we are & that is THE BACK BONE OF THE INDUSTRIE!. Second why are you people still under or on the networks contracts, everyone of you who re-signs gives them strenght in numbers to control the industrie. You don't need them! They are " THE MIDDLE MAN" in all reality do you think that the insurance industrie see's the discounts that we have to give to the networks? All insureds have to report a claim to thier insurance company, the claim is done all you have to do is bill the ins. company, & then just follow through. I see & hear alot of people complain but if your business is based on RECEIVING REFERRALS from the network as your main base of income then you deserve what you get, after all they are SENDING you the work( your not earning it) Every insurance job I do has never come from the networks, however there are somtimes where I have to bill the network but I never get charged an invoice fee from them & I rarely accept the discounts they offer but because it is my claim they realy have no choice they can try to send it elsewhere but the customer is the ultimate buck. Monopolys can never be cvontroled that is why they are against the law. If you stop supporting the same people you complain about then where is the network going to be with out the shops to install for them. ULTIMATELY IT IS US THEY NEED!! Think about it!!!!!!!!!!

Excellent points John L!

And for others, John L is most definitely NOT THE ONLY ONE! Not by a **** sight. (as has been stated before)

They have a web site that describes their history, recent investments, team, etc. Mitchell is one of the few companies they own that is even remotely related to the insurance industry.

I am not trying to discredit the idea that insurance companies wield a lot of influence over NAGS, just pointing out that the conspiracy posts show that people don't do their homework. There is a huge amount of public information available that shows that if NAGS/Mitchell is 'controlled' by insurance companies, it is because insurance companies are among their customers, not their owners.