Another "Safe Installation" by "Safe"lite

It was a balmy 17 degrees here yesterday and for entertainment we watched Safelite install a w/s in a GMC Envoy in the parking lot of a body shop across the street. He has ties with the body shop and has a night drop box there for his glass. Everything he does is mobile & he evidently prefers to work outside, cause it wasn't too long after he left they ran it inside to work on it. He probably didn't want to waste time moving it inside. It took him 40 minutes to complete the job.

He used a long-knife to trim the pinchweld so you can be certain he made scratches. Gotta give him credit though, he didn't short-cut it! He did not use any primer on the pinchweld, not that I know of any that would cure under 40 degrees.

When it was time for the w/s he walks over to the non-heated box and grabs the w/s, puts it on a glass stand and does whatever a guy can do to a frozen piece of glass.

I did get some great dated photos of him in action with the Safelite Van prominently next to him with piles of snow on the vehicles nearby & a photo displaying the temp of 16.9 degrees. Any creative ideas on what to do with them?

Got any consumer protection bureau's in your state?

How 'bout the local news; seems like they're always happy to disclose things that are potentially harmful/fatal to their viewers... I know here in MN, the ABC channel in Mpls. does that kind of story. You can even submit your info "anonimously." Just include the facts, pics, and explain why this is so bad/unsafe.

You mention that he did not primer the pinchweld, but you don't mention if he actually primered the glass at that temperature...did he?

I'm not aware of any primer that can be applied at that low of a temperature either.

I really couldn't say for certain if he applied any primer to the w/s or not as it wasn't in plain view when he placed it on the stand. You could see him spray cleaner and that he was wiping it off. And he struggled for awhile putting the molding on the w/s. We didn't see any motions that would indicate priming the glass.

I'm guessing he was using SIKA and I am not familiar with either their glass or pinchweld primers. If anyone out there is please fill me in. Is priming the glass required and at what temps?

THANKS

Maybe he was using that "primerless to glass" urethane?

Sika Aktivator on the glass. Apply then wipe with clean paper towel and wait 10 minutes before installing. No go under 40 for any Sika primers. Great job in getting some documentation on this since this is what we need to stop in our industry. I know ABC and Fox news have both had several segments produced regarding this. I would certainly recommend you persue this. If you stress the importance of a safe install and its implications, it will probably get their attention.
Funny, I remember 5 or so years ago when 20/20 did their segment and none of the installers even knew what a safe drive away time was when they interviewed them after the install. Caught the one guy using a dirty rag to clean the windshield.

Assuming that the glass was primered before he left the shop, what is the 'stand time' on Sika Activator, and is it OK to wash the glass after it is applied, before the application of the 'thane?

Don't use Sika, so I don't know.

8 hours for Aktivator. Personally, I never believed in Priming glass before being at a jobsite. Between moving glass in/out of glass rack and all of the handling, the 60 seconds saved just isn't worth the risk. Any contact with the primed frit requires another application.

any the glass wasin a drop box the dist. does not prim. Another example thess jobs should be in side. Not mobile. there is no quality contron with a mobile instaler wanting to cut time every way he can That is why the group gets the name hacks, and some of them deserve it. I read the disclaimer on primerless urethane thast said the would nod cover libilty if you used it without primer. That tells me there is no such thing as primerless.

Unless they've changed, Safelite is using Sika. I just had a meeting with the Sika rep and asked him about cold weather use since the urethane is good down to 0 and the primers are only good down to 40. The rep told me that below 40, it takes longer for the aktivator to set up. Also, Sika comes in a "Super Kit" with both aktivator and 206 G&P body primer in the same box as your urethane. No excuse for not priming the body scratches, but no suprise.
He had the opprotunity to do it inside on a freezing day and he didn't, that wasn't very smart. I guess he was afraid it would cut into his time and he couldn't get those 8 or 10 installs done by 5.

I know why he didn't want to pull the vehicle inside. As soon as all that cold metal hits the warm air inside, it immediately becomes soaking wet for an hour or so until it warms up. We let them sit under the infra-reds for at least an hour after pulling them inside.

Were you able to pin your Sika rep down and get him to define "much longer"? Is there a chart for that based on temperature and humidity for example? If they know it takes longer they must have studied this.

I think we need answers to this question as it is very obvious installers are applying primers, or setting windsdhields down to 0degrees either without primers or without proper flashing of the primer taking place.

Great point Bob on the "primerless" urethanes.

I was throwing that comment out to see if anyone else read that part of the disclaimer. No warranty or liability if you DO NOT USE glass primers. The term "primerless to glass" is simply a marketing term.

You are correct, there are no aftermarket urethanes that are "primerless to glass" without very extended SDA times, ranging from 3hour SDA (110 degrees 90% humidity) to 48hour SDA(40degress and 10-30% humidity)and none of these should be applied below 40 degrees. In most cases I understand that even those "primerless" urethanes are not meant for WINDSHIELD applications but FIXED tempered applications. So, there seems to be no way a mobile installation can be done below 40 degrees without a glass primer. Unless there is something new on the market?

It would be nice to hear from Sika and Dow on this issue wouldn't it?

Would AGRR want to pin these manufacturers down on primer application temperatures and the "primerless" issue?

Go to this website page 18&19 "Seasonal Concerns" for cold-weather use of Sika Aktivator and Sika Primer 206 G+P

http://www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-Tech-Training-Manual-04.pdf

Hi all,

Thanks for all the great replies. I am 95% certain he uses SIKA. I got my doubts if SAFELITE delivers his glass pre-primed. Does SIKA even make a primer-less urethane?

Just got a call from a buddy at the convenience store next door alerting us he was doing another outside install at the body shop. Didn't have time or opportunity to do any more "special ops" work on this one.

It's 30 degrees today. What a moron this guy is. I knew he was doing mobile installs all winter on too cold of days but always figured he was at least inside customers garages, even though most are not heated. Apparently whatever is the quickest is what he prefers. When there is a heated shop at his disposal (this body shop is very large) he doesn't want to take the extra time to carry his tools, ect. inside.

Thanks for your continued help and advice. It just really ****** me off we have busted our butts to be the best shop in our market, professionally train our guys, become a Charter Member of AGRSS, then SAFELITE puts a mobile-clown in our market and we loose customers to someone doing this kind of work.

gotta run...

Thanks for the info B, I didn't see your post until after I did mine. What everyone seems to agree on is no matter what a guy uses you must prime the glass.

I truly believe "primerless to glass" is an industry misnomer. If you really dig into the adhesive manufactures information that promotes this activity, you'll find this bears itself out in some form. Be careful!

A question for everyone. What is more sickening, that an installer isn't priming, working indoors, etc. when he/she should be, or that his company has a wage policy that ONLY encourages him to do the job quickly, take every short cut he can think of in order to make his bonus and a decent wage?

And this would apply to any glass company. A wage plus commision can be a great system for both parties (company and installer) but it can also be a very dangerous wage structure if there is little or no controls in place to insure quality and the safety of your customers.

I believe Safelite still uses their "parts per day" bonus pay structure, small base wage, bonus for completing certain number of installs per day. They did have a system for penalizing for warranty work or call backs at one time. You would lose credit for the job if someone else had to warranty it. That job was given to the warranty installer and taken from your commisions.

Question is, if I am doing 10 to 14 a day, what do I really care if I get a few call backs a week? Kind of like the factory that instead of paying to fix their pollution problems simply pays the EPA fines because they are cheaper and they can make more money faster NOT fixing the problem.

Any thoughts on this?

BG - our owner had a great idea, why not install a LIVE camera near the body shop and broadcast it to us all?

Would be really great to see this guy in action !!!

CCC,
All the rep would tell me is to give it about an extra 10 mins for the aktivator. I told him "Not a problem since I clean and prime the glass when I first arrive then I start the removal process". As for the 206 G&P, he told me as long as it was dry to the touch, it was ready. Still, I feel that if you can get it out of the cold, do it.

Funny term to use "dry to the TOUCH". LOL

Well, in any case it is apparent that even when using primers in temperatures BELOW 40degrees they will need considerably more time to dry or flash out. In the case you mentioned it sounds like almost twice as long, 10 minutes verses 20 minutes? No wonder some installers are NOT using primers in cold weather. :)