Looking for head to fit 1930-31 22A engine.


Rick Botti
rick@botti.us
(510) 709-3705

Do You own a car built by Durant? two of them

Rick. Tell me if you've heard of this place before. Many years ago (1975?), I bought a 22A motor for my coupe from Roseville garage down in your neck of the woods near Auburn. I had a Chev Master 6 in my car. Now I have a vague recollection that the back room of this place had many Durant engines. This might be like looking for some lost treasure. Did that trans you bought from me in Vancouver work out for you? The machinist that remade the main shaft for my trans probably still has the drawings and could make one for you if you need one. Is the head for your car non-repairable? Ross

Where Are You From? ORYGUN

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 6-14

Rick:
Have you been successful in getting a head for the 22AA engine?

Gord

Where Are You From? Guelph, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 Frontenac

Not yet, but I'm still searching for one.

Do You own a car built by Durant? two of them

hello rick i was told along time ago the devaux head will fit 31 durant,may want to chk further,if you get 1 and it doesnt fit you can always sell it to me
dave

Where Are You From? so calif

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 devaux 1932 devaux

Cute Dave .. getting Rick to find parts for the DeVaux's with Hall engines..

From what I see all 1930 - 32 6 cyl Durant's / Frontenac's use same head for 22A, 22AA, engines. 633 is not mentioned at all and C600 has its own.

Humm I have noted 32A used some 31 / 32 Durant's after 22A, 633 and C600 have same engines. (bigger bore and hotter cam)

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

I JUST THOUGHT ID THROW THAT OUT ABOUT THE DEVAUX HEAD,WAS TOLD YEARS BACK THE HEAD WOULD WORK,I HEARD OF A PARTS MOTOR IN OREGON,I HAVENT BEEN ABLE TO RUN IT DOWN YET,MAYBE RICK WILL HAVE BETTER LUCK,WHO KNOWS WHAT WILL WORK,I HEARD THAT CONTINENTAL MOTORS USED THE SAME ENGINE IN MASSEY FERGUSON TRACTORS IN THE LATE 30S AND 40S BUT CALLED THEM 40AA,I KNOW SAME HEAD GASKET EXCEPT BIGGER BORE,MAYBE HEAD WILL WORK ALSO,JUST SOME THOUGHTS, DAVE

Where Are You From? SO CALIF

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 DEVAUX

Very possible Dave .. Same with blue seal industrial engines might also be the same. Need a Cont parts book to see what interchanges if there is such a thing. Perhaps a normal interchange book might tell us that Graham Page or some other Co used same heads and or parts.

I found that orange repro Chilton Interchangable Parts Handbook to be next to useless.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

What cars used Hall engines. I have a block that I need to pull out of the shed and check out.

Where Are You From? Iowa

Do You own a car built by Durant? 31 model 619

Good question Wayne .. just searching and Hall Scott engines have been around since 1910 to 1960.
Wikipedia
The company was initially founded in 1910 by Californians Elbert J. Hall and Bert C. Scott to manufacture petrol-powered rail cars. Hall was the engineer while Scott was the business executive. They produced their first rail car in 1909, and the newly named Hall-Scott Motor Car Company was launched with manufacturing in Berkeley, California in 1910 and with headquarters in San Francisco.

Shortly after World War I, around 1921, Hall-Scott dropped its aero engine and rail car product lines. The firm produced several hundred thousand two-speed rear axles (the Ruckstell Axle) for Ford's Model T through the mid-1920s. American Car and Foundry purchased Hall-Scott in 1925 and used its engines in its buses and boats.

In 1960 Hall-Scott disappeared as a company.

Can't seem to get a connection to DeVaux under the Scott - Hall or American Car and Foundry to say what other cars might have used the Hall - Scott engines.

Under DeVaux

The cars were powered by a six-cylinder L-head engine designed by Col. Elbert J. Hall, partner in the venture, and built by the Hall-Scott Motor Company. It developed 70 or 80 hp.

The De Vaux was offered in one model only, the 6/75, and rode on a 113 in (2,900 mm) wheelbase. Bodies were essentially the same as the defunct Durant, but got a facelift from Hayes stylist Alexis de Sakhnoffsky. It prompted De Vaux to brag about a "de Sakhnoffsky styled" body in its ads. Offered were a Coupe and a Sedan in Standard trim or Custom trim, priced at $595 and $795, respectively. A $545 Phaeton is occasionally mentioned, but it did not reach production and De Vaux never advertised or sold it.

Production began in April 1931 and the company was unable to meet the market demand. De Vaux produced 4,808 vehicles (maybe including production until January, 1932) before being taken over by Continental Motors Corporation who renamed it the Continental-De Vaux Company. Their cars were called Continental De Vaux (sometimes vice versa). There were few changes, most notable (but not surprisingly) a replacement of the Hall-Scott engine by an 84 hp Continental 32-A L-head six. Only 1,358 were built.

Then, Continental gave it a final try by renaming the company again, to Continental Automobile Company in November 1932. It built three models: the four-cylinder Beacon, on a shorter chassis, and the 6-cylinder Ace and Flyer, both based on the De Vaux. For 1934, only the Beacon remained. After producing approximately 4,200 vehicles during the 1933 and 1934 model years, Continental gave up. Remaining assets were repurchased by Norman De Vaux who hoped to restart production. His plans never materialized and he sold his California plant to General Motors in 1936.

Don't know if any of this helps, Wayne. Get the impression only DeVaux used it. Whoever wrote some of this didn't do his homework that the Durant same body and running gear continued in Canada to end of 32 in Durant and Frontenac's.

Looking at Gary Yelle's comment in other forum Discovered a 1933 Continental Ave ... he refers to the casting as a 40 AA601 engine. I assume yours is a 40A ?

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Rick ... theres your 22A head in "Parts that need to go" in BC.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Norm,Wayne and Dave:
The 1931(only) DeVaux used the "Hall" 40A engine. Mabe a few early 32's used the Hall but Howard and I am not sure. When DeVaux went under (Feb 32) Hall and Norman DeVaux each went their own way. I believe unused 40A's were re-worked to be 40 AA. The manafold is the same. Both these engines were cast by Continental. All gaskets (except manafold) are the same on 40A and 22A.
Col. Hall was part of Hall-Scott but they sold the company in the mid 20's. Norman DeVaux called to Col. Hall to join him to design this 40A engine. As to the heads..yes they are interchangeable. One would only have the Hall logo on the side of the head. A few years back, Mike L. sold a head to be used on a 22A.
Howard and I have communicated with a professor in North Dakota who has written a book on the history of Hall-Scott.
A while back I went over to Silverdale to look at a crated..new Hall-Scott that was Navy surplus. I believe it was cast in 1944. A massive piece of machinery and he only wanted 1K for it. Oh, well.
Gary

Where Are You From? Washington State

Hi Gary .. have to keep referring to the other forum on the engines (G)
The wikipedia write up I copy / pasted makes mention of the 32 A being used after the 40 in 32, yet the 33 Ace you were looking at with info almost ground off to hide it had the 40AA601 and stamped April 1931.

Had to check my scribblings and I mentioned the 32A was used after the 22A / 22AA in our 31 / 32 cars but also the 633 Durant and C600 Frontenac. Almost like they were using up motors where they could to push out cars.

We sure can't say anything is right or wrong and set in stone that X item was used on a set year and model. I think we see it more with Dominion cars using up parts. Gord has mentioned about a few Frontenac's same year and each has a few different parts to the others. Most glaring I recall was a Frontenac, he said, on a Durant frame right from Factory. Frontys had the dropped frame and D's straight. One of our members here mentioned years back it was like they threw the parts in the air and what ever landed first got used on that car. Maybe same with Daryl's 33 Ace and others ?

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan