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Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Not sure you can use the hand crank, even if you have the correct one. Takes all my muscles to just half crank it to keep it loose a couple of times a year. Lot of compression on mine even with 72,000 miles on it.

What we did with the 32 was disconnect the cable from the starter and used battery jumper cables from my van ( 12 volt) which does not hurt the starting motor. Turn on the key. By disconnecting / removing the cable from the staring motor post, the rest of the 6 volt system will not be harmed (like gauges, lights, coil etc)

Neg 12 volt on van and ground other end somewhere on Durant frame / block then touch the positive which should be on 12 volt to the starting motor connection. Engine will fly over. Don't hold the cable a long time but in short bursts.

I messed up not knowing the J4A carburetor on mine, U2 probably on yours, has two tiny pin hole jets in the carb neck. Once those were opened problem was solved and the 32 roared to life for the first time since 1961. Stopped it by turning off the key. Then filled the rad with water, turn on the key and used the jumper cables again to start it. Drove it about 15 feet under its own power and left it running a bit then backed it into the shed again. I had a brand new 6 volt battery in the car and as you say it won't turn it fast enough with engines being idle for years.

Reconnected the cable from starting button to starting motor later. Next day she started using the battery only.

Some of our 614's have a push button on the dash to start and others (most) have the floor one you use with your foot. Still others have startix which is automatic starting once you turn the key on. Those you better have the car in nutral, or chase it down the road.
Mine has the floor button but the dash has the hole for the push button.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Got it running, at least for a while, need to check the carburetor adjustments etc. to keep it running.

Took the water pump out to prevent extra resistance, dismantled the carburetor, starter, generator, ... and installed them back after cleaning. Some fuel in the carb and starter spray and we got it running. It stalled every time after a while and couldn't find a good level of throttle control to keep it running. It is getting fuel, the level is full now in the glass cup so the fuel pump is working, I did change the membrane.

Well, feels good to see that there is life in the engine, just need to find the right settings. I have new parts for the distributor, distributor arm, condenser and ignition breaker. Maybe I'll change those also even though I'm not sure the problem is there.

Any good references for the spark plugs that would work the best?

Where Are You From? Finland

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 Durant 614

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Orig plugs were Champion C-7 which I found in the pocket in the back of the front seat, plus old points and other bits and pieces. My 32 doesn't have door pockets just one double on back of front seat.

I discovered the
C-7 were replaced to D-16
Autolite BT-8
AC Delco C-87

All of those were replaced to NGK A-6 when I went after plugs in 2007. To my surprise when going to the local Canadian Tire Store, the clerk told me they were out on the floor shelves in pkg's of two's, I think for $11. My friend with the D60 which orig used C-4 had to order his replacement plugs at over $30 each.

I believe the NGK A-6 have now been replaced by another number. Ah yes I just put Champion C-7 in search and got an instant hit

http://www.sparkplug-crossreference.com/convert/CHAMP_PN/C7

Replacement spark plugs for Champion C7:\

Autolite 386

Champion D16

NGK AB6

NGK stk 2910

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

I ordered new spark plugs, Champion 516 (cross reference with D16).

The Durant is now running "smoothly" with the old spark plugs, after some extra carburetor adjustments and water pump service. Next step is to grease all joints, check the brakes, and take it for a spin.

Where Are You From? Finland

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 Durant 614

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

The Durant ready for museum vehicle inspection, this would enable lower insurance costs and the inspection from the Ministry of Transport has to be done every 4th year instead of yearly inspection.

Yes, the cars have to be inspected and approved road legal yearly here in Finland... To get a car museum stamped the car has to be in original condition and over 30 years old. Some minor changes can be made to improve the safety, like blinkers installed.

Where Are You From? Finland

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 Durant 614

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

One more question before I start to renew the distributor rotor, ignition coil, breaker points, condenser and spark plugs.

What is the probable cause for the engine to stall when it's warm? after a drive around the yard the engine just stalled and it was hard to get running again. I could get it running after a while, with the help of starter spray, but after a while it stalled again. Could be just some dirt but I just cleaned the carb and no dirt in the fuel cup so maybe it has something to do with the electrics?

So to find the cause, what would be the proper manner to start testing with new parts?

Where Are You From? Finland

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 Durant 614

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Vapor lock in the gas line ?

My chum's 1931 614 sedan in the 60's would do that. We would be driving around and every now and then it would quit. Getting it going again took some time.

I sure recall borrowing his car when he was away, to drive down to Jasper Ont to a wrecking yard to get it a new front right fender. Kenny McDougal yard back then was biggest this side of Ont. You name it he had it. Back in one row of cars was a 1930 614 and fenders on it were close to mint. Next to it was a 29 Durant. I got parts off a Graham Paige sedan for a friend, and I am sure you could have driven that car home and put it in a showing of cars. Such a shame to see complete cars pulled apart for items. People actually flew in to get parts off Kenny. Number of years later his mother died. Kenny crushed everything.

As I was saying, I drove the 614 out of Ottawa, picked up a chum in Manotick and off to Smiths Falls and on to Jasper. Half way there in the middle of no where with nothing but trees, the car quit. Wouldn't start but didn't want to wear battery down with constant trying. Now what do we do with no houses, no one else on the road ? We sat there about a half hour, gave it one more try and away she went again, once the vapor lock let go. Didn't do it again that day. Got to Kenny's and he helped take the fender off the 30 614. Stuffed it in the back seat with running board end out the rear passenger door window like an airplane wing. Drove back to Ottawa like that. Its still on the car today.

Not saying you have a vapor lock, but its one idea.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Ok, vapor lock could be one possibility. How do I prevent this, there could be excessively rich air-fuel mixture causing this? Adjusting the idle screw on the carburetor and the high speed adjustment after that?

Any good notes on what would be the best adjustment level in turns for the idle and main adjustment or is the manual standard ok?

Where Are You From? Finland

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 Durant 614

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

I can't help you with solutions on vapor lock... we always assumed it was between the gas tank and the fuel pump. This seems to say the same thing of before the fuel pump ... In our case a hot day with heat radiating up off the paved highway, perhaps. Heat off the back of the engine / exhaust pipe where the steel gas line crosses from drivers side to fuel pump might has some bearing on it as well. Might even have been a combination of pavement heat / hot day / engine heat that caused the 31 to vapor lock now and then. Don't think leaded gas back then would play a part in it.

""Vapor lock is a problem that mostly affects gasoline-fueled internal combustion engines.

It occurs when the liquid fuel changes state from liquid to gas while still in the fuel delivery system. This disrupts the operation of the fuel pump, causing loss of feed pressure to the carburetor or fuel injection system, resulting in transient loss of power or complete stalling. Restarting the engine from this state may be difficult.

The fuel can vaporize due to being heated by the engine, by the local climate or due to a lower boiling point at high altitude.""

I note your piece out of an AEA turn up card of Jan 1935 with the W8A Tillotson. Here's 2 parts from the 1932 Canadian Auto Chamber of Commerce approved by Leaside on the info. Doesn't give a lot of info on the Stromberg U2 used 1930. Book does not indicate my 1932 614 with J4A used on some 32's 614's but is indicated in the Leaside Aftermarket catalogue. My old 1930 614 of the 60's used the U2 but my chums 1931 used a W8A (now has a new Zenith replacement carb.

 photo IMG 1.jpg


 photo IMG.jpg

No idea what a Tillotson W is on a 611 but by same token we are having thoughts if a 611 in May 1931 ever happened. Lots of ad's and brochure's but none in the Registry nor has any one seen one. Wouldn't be the first time info is out there on a car that wasn't made. Its basically a 1931 614 in looks and engine, so why build two cars the same.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Sorry for the misleading picture, it's a Stromberg U-2 carb.

I started with changing the distributor rotor, ignition breaker point, condenser/capacitor. Probably going to change the ignition coil and spark plugs also, even though the spark plugs look ok and all are functioning.



Where Are You From? Finland

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 Durant 614

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Not knocking your car just observations when blowing up the pic you posted above in this forum.

Slow on the catching your car has twin windshield wipers. Only ad / brochure I noted twin wipers is a 1932 618. I did note the cowl lights which by 1930 on deluxe cars became fender lights, otherwise the headlight's had the parking light bulb's in the reflector above the main bulbs. Your headlights are also throwing me with square like edges on the doors so the "door peak ornament" with the spear motif would not fit. Then there's the bow tie like center bumper clamp instead of the elongated rad crest shape used on 30 /31 vehicles. I wonder if they used parts from 1929 when making this car.

Wouldn't be the first time Durant Motors used up previous model / year parts when assembling cars. This adds to the uncertainty which parts were used on the current owners vehicle, when they try to restore it, and someone with same car has different parts. Also add each plant did its own thing in some parts used. Don't see the back of your car for taillight as an example. Is it the all red beehive type used in all Canadian vehicles 1930 - 32 plus a number of 1928 /29 models with 3 5/8 in dim door, or a bigger door with orange top red lower glass used in model 63 / 66 and 1930 US 614. The US used the 3 5/8 door one in 1931 and model 65. That's just one example of different parts. Another is the 1930 407 where we used plain outside door handles but Oakland 407's used the spear type same as the 614's.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Sharp eyes you got says Yoda :-)

The previous owner had the double wipers installed, not the best work and I need to renew the wiper motor. Been looking for a 6V replacement wiper motor.

The cowl lights are for the blinkers they had to install for safety to get the car registered here in Europe. I could remove them now when I got the car museum inspected.

The back has the light for the register plate and then half and half red/yellow tail lights (the yellow parts for blinkers). I found one pic on my phone but it doesn't show much. I'll post more when I get better pics.

Where Are You From? Finland

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 Durant 614

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Should there be a cover for the starter/crank handle hole in the front?

Where could I get one?

Where Are You From? Finland

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 Durant 614

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Ha ha Juha ... If only you knew about my eyes and AMD. Needles once a month in both eye's now at a cost of $1700 Can per needle. Thank goodness Ont medical covers the injections. I so far only pay $75 a visit to have the injections, plus $100 each July all of us have to pay as OHIP not covered fee.

I see your back bumperette's have the correct Durant center medallions. Like I mentioned plants did their own thing to a point. The 1931 619 Durant only built at Lansing plant used one bar bumpers that the end wrapped around the ends where bolt to attach to the backing bar goes. Center medallion is an oval like thing. Now jump to Canada and the 32 614 / 618 also has one bar bumpers but ends are open where bolt and backing come together. Medallions are diamond shaped. Only thing the same US and Canada is the backing bar and used on all vehicles 1930 - 32.

Take a look in Photos section of DMAC under Durant and 1932. The 618 of Remigi Odermatt in Switzerland (orig an Ont car) You can see the open ended bumpers and diamond shaped bumper medallions. You can also see the beehive taillights both sides with the white lettered Durant name in the red glass. The Durant name was an option. Someone has stuck the license plate on yours on the spare tire carrier. Correct place is as shown on the 618 off the fender mounted light. Left hand drive the other side.

Here's a pic of the US one with orange and red which is larger than the 3 5/8 in door ones.

 photo 29 Tail light lense.jpg

Yes there is a crank hole cover that sort of matches the rad cap with the spear design. I never found one or rad cap back in the 60's for mine. The 32 had no cap and after 50 years I finally got one from Gord our Ont DMAC rep. Gord had 3 but only one had the under fastening part. That cap sat like Royalty all the way back to Ottawa beside me. Have to be an old car nut to understand ha ha. When I picked up the 32 there on the front floor was the crank hole cover.

There it is on my rad. Has two spring prongs that slide into the crank hole. It sure won't fall out. Either eBay if you are real lucky or a member who might have a spare. Problem with crank hole covers , was the orig owners got tired of taking them out so got put on a shelf or tossed. Garages forgot to put them back as well.

 photo 1932 Durant15.jpg

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

For random stalling and subsequent running, check to see that the gas cap vent is open. Mine rusted shut and after a while the vacuum in the tank could not be overcome by the vacuum fuel pump. After siting, air would leak in to the tank and it would run again.

Recently, I lost the gas cap and bought a new one at NAPA. After filling my tank, i noticed gasoline pouring out the overflow tube. It turns out the new caps have a flapper value that lets air in but not out. As the gas warmed up, the pressure inside the tank would increase forcing gasoline out the overflow tube.

Where Are You From? San Francisco area

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1925 Star

Re: Durant 614 starting problems

Thanks Vincent, I'll check the gas cap. The cap is quite loose so I would think air could sip by even though the vent is not working properly and I hope the new ignition parts will solve the problem.

Where Are You From? Finland

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 Durant 614

 

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