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Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

(Posting pictures and text from Luke)

Hello here is a few pics of the magneto , it look factory to me as I have 3 motors and 2 have magnetos on them , plus I have a lot of spare parts to suit , covers drives etc , and this car also has a wheel base of 110 inches witch also does line up with what is in the book, let me know what you think , thanks Luke


 photo a-22 with magneto_zpshl9lofgb.jpg

 photo A-22 with magneto 1_zps2p42kmtk.jpg

 photo A-22 with magneto 2_zpsyd7odyns.jpg

A-22 with Magneto photo A-22 with magneto 3_zpsu7olfdqh.jpg

A-22 with Magneto photo A-22 with magneto 4_zpspy15c7bs.jpg

Where Are You From? Leavenworth, WA / Yuma, AZ

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yep

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Thanks Luke,

I took the liberty to post your pictures as I am sure others are interested as am I.

I looked up the Simms Magneto Company Ltd. and find that Fredric Richard Simms started The Simms magneto Company in 1907 and stopped production in 1913...He was also affiliated with Bosch...Google Simms Magnito company an there is a fair amount of info....

Since Simms stopped production of magnetos in 1913 and that Durant never started production of the A-22 until 1921 (8 years later) I wouldn't think that the magnito would not have been a factory installation, although the magnito on your A-22 does look to be a well designed aftermarket installation, possiably a kit someone offered during the war, maybe batterys were scarse and possably old stock magnetos were available....A couple things that look unusual, the oil pump input drive shaft has an 1/8" slot drive and the coupler is clamped to the shafts O.D, It also appears that the spark/throttle controls were altered and are not hooked up, I do see a lever at the front of the magneto, did magnitos have spark advances?....Anyway, Very interesting, and thanks.

Where Are You From? Leavenworth, WA / Yuma, AZ

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yep

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Interesting and think Bill has hit the mark as an alteration done to many makes after factory and dealer. Like adding an accessory water pump or distributor instead of the commutator on the Ford T. Lots of Co's putting out accessories / alterations for vehicles back then. Couldn't afford a new Ford when brass went out, then buy a metal rad shell to cover the brass rad and a tin hood to replace the aluminum one and your 1915 becomes a modern looking car.

To help you pin down year, 1923 model year (not production year) at New York plant N-15,327 to N-31,331. Model year is Aug 1st 1922 to July 31 1923. Your N 21514 fits in the middle of that.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

(Here are a few more detailed pictures that Luke has sent)


Here are a few more pics of the one out of the car as , I say I have 8 magnetos and parts and nearly 4 of these set ups so I don't know , are the distributor set ups hard to find over there ? Thanks Luke


 photo A-22 engine with magneto 2_zpsx7qgwuto.jpg

 photo dbc81008-c09b-4748-b36e-7dae6ce5c8df_zpsqbxeve0e.jpg

 photo A-22 engine with magnieto_zpsrwrnfets.jpg

 photo A-22 engine with magneto 1_zps9qayddws.jpg

Where Are You From? Leavenworth, WA / Yuma, AZ

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yep

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Hi folks:
We have a Repair Parts List for the Model A Four cylinder Durant "Effective May 1st, 1925.
It lists Magneto (Right Drive) and lists all the parts thereof. No mention of a Magneto (Left Drive).
Therefore, I would assume that Magneto's were only used on Right Hand Drive cars. We had some provinces in Canada that were RHD. Not sure when all provinces shifted to LHD
The car noted in this thread N5238 has the early windshield (tightening nuts on the outside, etc) It also has 30 x 3 1/2 clincher tires (early tourings were this way) and also the early manifold with the vacuum tank on the manifold. I would hazard a guess that the cowl lights were a later dealer addition.

By the way, our 22 took its maiden voyage yesterday, came home on its own power. Yeah!!!

Gord

Where Are You From? Guelph, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 Frontenac made by Dominion Motors Ltd., Leaside, Ont.

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Welp, Thanks Gord, I am now thinking that the magneto was in fact an available export thing, the Simms magneto in Lukes first picture could have been replaced from it's probable original application of an Auto-lite magneto, as pictured in Lukes second set of pictures....These Auto-lite magnitos would fit in most of Durants A-22 production years...

" The Electric Auto-Lite Company was incorporated in Ohio in May 1922 to purchase for cash and securities the assets of the Electric Auto-Lite Division of Willys Corporation. Electric Auto-Lite made parts, equipment, and accessories used in the manufacture of automobiles. The company grew rapidly in the first few years of its existence as a subsidiary of Willys and as the motorcar industry grew. In 1912 it produced 100 starting and lighting outfits per month. In 1920 it produced 100,000 per month. During the 1920s it was supplying parts for auto manufacturers such as Chevrolet Company, Durant Motors, Overland, Chalmers, and National."

Wonder if there was ever a list of optional parts or equipment for the A-22?

Where Are You From? Leavenworth, WA / Yuma, AZ

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yep

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Bill I see you copied what I posted above in your 2nd paragraph.

Luke it seems your blue / black touring is correct for the magneto.

Your comment Gord about left or right hand driving in Canada had me looking on the net. Lots of forum items on that point in this site. Appears most got on board by 1922 - 23 US and Can. Might account for that manual having magneto parts plus other parts used only on some RHD vehicles. (that might answer Bills query about A22 other parts mentioned in the May 1 1925 manual)

Interesting topic that doesn't seem to have come up before about RHV vehicles having magnetos.

Well well the Jan 1 1930 to June 30th 1930 Repair Parts Price List book for Durant, Star, Rugby, All models
part 1581 Magneto Chain Guard Stud
1582 Magneto Chain Guard Wing Nut
1583 Magneto Drive Chain
1584 Magneto Drive Sprocket
1585 Magneto Shaft Nut
1586 Magneto Sprocket Coupling
1975 Magneto Shaft Nut Lock
Probably more parts for the magneto if you went though this manual number by number.

Did Canadians ever drive on the left?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=60507

Also found another in Wiki where Montreal still has part of a hwy for RHD.

A section of Autoroute 20 in Montreal has the two directional roadways "switched", so that the forward roadway is to the left. However, this is a limited-access freeway, so driving on the proper side is not a concern.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Sorry about that Norm, I am always running a day late and a nickel short....All right, we have Durant parts and part numbers available for the magnito on the A-22 R.H.D. and the R.H.D. market would have been some provences in Canada and more than likly the export market....Any Idea what beneficial reason that the magneto or magneto option would have been for the R.H.D. or export rather than for domestic usage?

Where Are You From? Leavenworth, WA / Yuma, AZ

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yep

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

That's the funny / odd part Bill, I don't recall anyone here with RHD D Motors vehicles and would have assumed it was export only to those country's who drive on the wrong side.

Bit more on RHD / LHD USA Guess Hawaii which became US 1959 might had RHD D Motors vehicles ?

All US states and territories except the US Virgin Islands drive on the right. The first keep-right law in the United States, passed in 1792, applied to the Philadelphia and Lancaster Turnpike. New York in 1804 and New Jersey in 1813 also enacted keep-right rules. Only the formerly-British colonies historically drove on the left; the historically French, Spanish, Russian and Hawaiian portions of the United States all drove on the right by the time they were annexed by the United States.

Early American motor vehicles were right-hand drive, following the practice established by horse-drawn buggies. This changed in the early years of the 20th century: Ford changed to LHD production in 1908 with the Model T and Cadillac in 1916.

Before the 1908 launch of the Ford Motor Company's Model T, virtually every car in the United States placed the steering wheel on the right. In fact, Ford only made the change to make it easier for people entering on the passenger side to avoid oncoming traffic.

Because it was later seen that left-hand steering was conducive to safer driving (since it was easier for the driver to judge his or her proximity to oncoming traffic), this new way of steering became virtually standardised by the mid-1910s (it should be noted, though, that some automobiles - such as those from the Pierce Arrow line - only converted to left-hand in the early 1920s).

Appears its just the early A22 that some had the magneto ?? Purpose on a few versus standard set up (non mag) on all ??

Must be the part of the motto that should be "No Two Cars the Same"

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Norm & Bill;
Could it be that Australia, New Zealand and others had a majority of cars still using the Magneto and not the Generator system. So assemblers and mechanics in those countries were more used to the magneto system. I've never owned a magneto car, but I presume they are reliable if the magneto is kept clean and contact points too. I know with a magneto you need no battery, but wouldn't you still need something to generate electricity for the lights or is that done also by the magneto? Very interesting this difference.

Where Are You From? Oviedo, Florida

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yes 1928 Durant Model 65 4 door sedan

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

No idea Mike ... this seems to be the first time anything about a magneto has come up. The generator is still under the magneto, which in turn runs the water pump. In Luke's pic there is a wire off it.
Mag as shown has a commutator / distributor cap ? for the plugs so does this thing replace the coil ? Lights / gauges could be off the battery. Battery in turn charged by the generator. Seems a lot of over kill to just replace a coil (if that's what its for)
No one in OZ or other country's has mentioned a mag on their A22's. Toss this out for speculation that perhaps only NY, as first plant, used the mag on exports. By time other plants started production they used the normal distributor system ? (always lots of ? with Billys vehicles) If I recall Luke has two of three engines with it.

Car itself is orig condition needing restoring, last registered 1947. Blue touring body with black fenders and he knows it was imported by a Richardson. He's not sure which of the three engines and several blocks is the orig.

Not wanting to open another door ... but ... did the first Star W4's with RHD ever use this ? The manual I mentioned is just part numbers and first number is 1007. Doesn't say what vehicles the parts are used on. You need the model parts book or part number, to see what D Motors is going to charge you in 1930 when ordering it. Possible that since Star was 1922 than the Durant 1921, the mag was not even considered.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

I can almost verify that all Durants/ Rugby (Star) cars manufactured in Canada and exported to New Zealand and Australia were fitted with Magneto ingnition. My JIMMIE is unique 'Down Under' as it has a distributor because he/she was built in New Jersey and converted to Right hand drive in the Factory in 1924. The bulkhead has a modified plate to fill the hole where the steering column would have been on the left. Thus as it comes up under the bottom of the bulkhead on the right at a lesser angle than usual so the steering wheel is much closer to the seat and one has to literaly slide under it to get into the drivers position. I have a complete spare Magneto salvaged from one of my spare motors.

Where Are You From? Lake Taupo New Zealand

Do You own a car built by Durant? A22 Sport Tourer 1924

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

This has been an interesting forum and perhaps something Carol could use in Partner on differences with exports, if any background can be found.

Why only on some exports, what plants, how long, what vehicles (Durant, Star, Rugby, Flint, Locomobile, Mason Truck) as they are all at same time frame.

Did a quick scan of US / Can Durant / Dominion Motors aftermarkets, but no mention of mags at all. Brushes for generators and other parts on the A. Perhaps US / Can were only concerned with N/A vehicles only ?

Was wondering if we had Jimmy in the Registry, but yes and with notation about the switched engines.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Hello thanks for all the information on the magneto cars it has been helpful and confusing , last question , it has been said all cars exported were out of Canada , does this mean the car I have has made in New York on it were they made there and transported to Canada ?

Where Are You From? Australia

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yes a22

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

No Canada was also an export plant.

First plant was Long Island City, New York , not to confuse it with NY State. Long Island is on the Atlantic, so shipping was easy from there. Leaside is Toronto and cars were shipped down Lake Ontario then the St Lawrence to the Atlantic. NY plant closed in 1923 we believe.
1923 A22 Model year vins N-15,327 to N-31,331
1924 A22 Model year vins N-31,331 to N-35,000 (factory closure)

As Bob says, in mails to Steve and I last year, 1923 was a banner year for A22 cars produced, which is why there are so many 23's surviving. The main thrust was the many Star's produced at the four plants. B22 was a bust mainly and short lived. It was also observed vin's make little sense versus actual production and were probably inflated to make it seem Billy was turning out more cans than he did. I think Mike also echoed those thoughts about vins, at one point.

You have one thing right. Billy's empire is confusing plant to plant. As I have mentioned before, in talking to Jon the carb king, the worst Co to figure out is Graham and Durant is next up the ladder. So we are not quite the bottom of the barrel.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Hi Luke. I know of a 1924 A22 with magneto and from New York factory. Ph 0749923398 if you wish to contact me.
Regards Sid

Where Are You From? Australia

Do You own a car built by Durant? d65 and 614

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Sid:
Do you know if it was Right Hand Drive?

Gord

Where Are You From? Guelph, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 Frontenac made by Dominion Motors Ltd., Leaside, Ont.

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Hi Gord. It is right hand drive.
Regards Sid

Where Are You From? Australia

Do You own a car built by Durant? d65 and 614

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Some early Rugby's (Star) came to Australia with mag ign. Also some came from New Jersey factory. I have a 4 cyl motor with a Bosch mag. Saved it from scrap dealer. Will check if it is W4 or5. All mag motors had generators that i have seen. Sid

Where Are You From? Australia

Do You own a car built by Durant? d65 and 614

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Before forum failed to work and error was page could not be found, I had added more to my previous mail, which vanished after hitting update.

It appears Star remained Star under the model C and it was F that got its name changed to Rugby. Both Terry's old site and Steve's new Registry have no C Rugby's. That doesn't alter what Sid is saying.
As Sid commented about New Jersey, in the Rugby (Star) the surviving Rugby's are very heavy from New Jersey and a few from Leaside. This reverses later with 1926 M with Toronto heavy in exports and New Jersey light from then on. All the Rugby (Durant) 40 are Leaside in the Registry.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Old DFR register shows some Aussie rugbys up to 1926 came from New Jersey factory. The motor i have is a W5 1924 with American Bosch magneto. Looks like factory fittment. However some one could have taken it off a 1923 W4 which were fitted to model C rugby here. The W5 i have was used as a generator mounted to cut off front half of chassis. Perhaps magnetos were more reliable. Doesnt really solve mystery of when magnetos ceased. Sid

Where Are You From? Australia

Do You own a car built by Durant? d65 and 614

Re: Wanted to know what year a Durant a22 stopped using a magneto

Lad on eBay has been trying to flog a number of different mags for months he doesn't know what they are off of. Nine Bosch make. 321893784777 Just see other parts to bring up all the carbs and mags.

Perhaps the Rugby mag time span is lost in the mist's of time.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

 

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