Hi, I'm Julie. my husband and I just bought a 1931 Durant restoration project. The engine has ID numbers galore but how do you figure out which Model it is? Our car has 4 doors, 5 metal spoked tires/spare mounted at rear, signal lites on front fenders, and has a soft top roof. I'm told it has Rugby flat 6 cyl. 4 speed engine. the passenger side of the engine has an ID plate with -15u-6354 and on the drivers side, piston part of motor, 15ua622, 4 3 30. Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.

Where Are You From? Beaverton, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 Durant touring

I have reviewed my serial number listings and the number closest to your engine # 15U6354 is (15U6872) which belongs to a 1930 Durant 617 standard 4 door sedan 6 cylinder made in Lansing Mich. Hope this information is helpful in finding your vehicle identity.

Where Are You From? Mississauga Ontario Canada

Julie
Take a picture and post it here on the forum of the front or at least the side. Also the plate on the firewall should have a model number prior to the serial number. Also an interior picture would be helpful.

Where Are You From? Oviedo (near Orlando) Florida

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1928 Durant Model 65 4 dr

Not sure serial numbers on motor help id the car as US or Canada. 15U seems to make it a 617 1930. Most likely sold and registered as a 1931. 4 3 30 seems to be the casting date of the block. April 3 1930. I see you say 4 speed which also indicates a 1930 617.

Dominion Motors cars it appears used up US parts to create our cars. My block is cast May 13 1931 and head April 13 1931, a month after the 1931 614 here in Ottawa motor of March 1931 casting. I had thought it might be an id point. Luckily for me the VIN plate (Mike on the toe board not firewall) is very legible on mine and with the J indicates 1932. Mind you a number of parts are only 1932 which sure clinch it.

If this car still has the VIN plate on the toeboard but illegble, turn it over and read the stamped numbers in reverse on the back. That should say 617 in one place and its VIN number inline with that near it.

Signal lights on the fender could be parking lights which seem standard for Dominion cars July 31 to Dec 1932. Also used on above standard cars (special and deluxe) by Durant Motors cars 1930 early 31.

I never knew about the 617's until seeing Terry's site. Both made US and Canada. I missed a 617 in the 60's up near Calibogie when farmer sold it to a US fellow, after I bought it. Paid for it one w/e and went to pick it the next w/e and he sold it to a passing American during that week who took it with him. Not a happy camper. Always wondered why it was same as my 1930 614 body / fender / rad shell, yet motor was reversed manifold wise with smaller carb.

Yes a pic of the car might help but check out Terrys site also to help you. http://www.durantcars.com/catalogs/durant/index.shtml

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Hi Julie......

Welcome to the Club. Sounds like you have a nice car.

As Norm said the serial number plate is nailed to the floor board. A lot of times these are missing or worn down.

The 4 speed trans is also a 617 feature.

Here are a couple pictures of my 617. You can see the plate in the interior picture.

Frank

Where Are You From? Hookstown Pennsylvania

Do You own a car built by Durant? a few

Thanks Frank .. as you can see it looks ever bit a 407 or 614. Better be careful, Ron is after dash spears, square pulls and V (spear) handles with 8 sided backing plates, I see on yours. lol

1935 parts catalogue indicate same fenders splash aprons etc as the other 1930 - 32's. Instruments / dash cluster however are 1930 all models and don't interchange with 31 / 32 instruments.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Did 6-17s have 5 wire wheels with the rear mounted spare? Lynn Meeker told me that blocks and heads were cast with their dates on them then set out to "season" and brought in for final machining with no thought of matching dates. The 'CL' you find on the castings was a Michigan foundry. Ross Also don't the Butters reproduce all the dash spears, handles and such for these from Harvey Frid's old patterns?

Where Are You From? Orygun

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 6-14 coupe

Hi Ross....

My 617 has 6 wire wheels and a rear trunk rack and trunk. It also has the fender lights.

I purchased it a few years ago from a fellow in New Jersey.

It's about 4th on my list of Durant projects.

Frank ---

Where Are You From? Hookstown Pennsylvania

Do You own a car built by Durant? a few

Yes Ross the Butters lads do repro the handles etc. Neil had a set of outside handles at this years Stirling flea market. Nice looking handles. However to a lot of us, cost is a factor and finding the origs for a few dollars at a flea market takes 1st choice. I picked up the passenger door (key) one for $5 and learned later I could have had it for $2. Those were used 32 only. Wasn't upset one bit at $5, lol

Stephan got into it a number of years ago on his 1931 where US DMAC fellows were telling him his car was incorrect to have a wire wheel on the back, wires were twin side mounts. Wood spoke had the rear mounted spare.

Sorry, but rear mounted wires are correct here, as he explained. Stephan's has it and so does mine. That might be one big difference US to Canada. Might also confirm this 617 as Canadian. Seems to be a number of differences US to Canada.

Don't go by Terry's site as gospel, if looking at pic's, not knocking it at all. Terry told me he used Branham's to get a lot of the info, which is US cars and info only, and Branham's is not always correct. Branham's has no info on our Canadian Durant's and Frontenac's. If he had time, he told me in Dec 2006, he thought he should do a special section on just our Canadian cars. Got into it also with Jon, the Carb King, as his site also has nothing and never heard of the carbs we used. Knew the Durant name but never heard of a Frontenac. He also used Branhams.

In the 60's we demolished a 30 Durant sedan for parts with rear wire mount, better shape than Dot is. We demolished two of them. D's were all over the place back then for a few bucks. I was really ticked at the time as my chum, who owned Stephan's back then, used an axe to chop the body off and in so doing sliced the mount as well. I had hoped to switch my 30 "Special" from wood to wire using that mount and drums / wires on the axles.

Perhaps Steve L can tell us where our motors were make for Canadian cars. Michigan is not all that far from Toronto and could be Leaside plant brought the motors in by the train load, for production. Perhaps we cast our own thinking on the C400 and C600 Fronty's motors having that on the heads, or were specially cast in US for Canada. Don't know what the casting has for corresponding, Ace, Beacon and Flyers. Noted Terry has the Ace as a 633 Frontenac but we know its a Canadian 1933 Durant.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Norm With all these differences between US and Canadian cars I'm starting to think Canada must be a separate country or sumthin! Ross

Where Are You From? Orygun

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 6-14 coupe

Sure are and don't ya'll forget it, grin

Durant Motors thought up the cars and we perfected them. 619 was a good start until we turned it into a graceful Frontenac. Improved the Durant 614 and created the 618 and 633. You had 619 we didn't, like the 611 here you didn't. You had winter fronts, we didn't. Its been an eye opener how different all the Plants have been and parts used. Even between your own Plants and models.

Like DeVaux is different to D Motors, seems we did the same here under Dominion for some parts and even before. Like we say no two cars the same.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

my 1931 6-14 durant coach is a 6 wooden spoke wheel car with twin sidemounts, trunk and rack on rear.
how about them apples, normie....hahahahha......
luv gary k

Where Are You From? penna

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 DURANT 6-14 COACH, 1925 STAR ROADSTER

See Unc Gary, a poor mans car. We used wires on our twin mounts. As I said we corrected the US mistakes. ha ha

You know its funny how many different cars have now come out of the woodwork we knew nothing about nor shown in brochures. My Leaside 1930 614 18 page sales brochure has no coach or blind backs, nor does it have rear mounted wire spares. Yet we know the rear mounted wires were common here. Its no wonder Durant failed with so many different car models and differences in those. Unlike Ford who said you got an A with different models. Billy seemed to give the public any car they dreamed up.

Been meaning to ask if your 31 is really a 30 sold / registered as a 31. Which dash does it have ? Same as Franks pic or the 619 type dash used on Dominion cars ? Gold for Durant and silver for Frontenac.

Durant wasn't the only one with differences US / Canada. Ford T open cars US had stamping as drivers door, but actual door Canada. Ford A owners used to be penalized at US meets for using Robertson screws instead of slot screws and different bumper medallions. Both items used here and correct. D's used Robertsons here as well, as did a lot of makes.

We had no idea in the 60's except we owned a Durant. Its good to have a club like ours to know nothing is set in stone and we can share info as it is found. Same model and year can have different parts depending on what the Plant was able to get near at hand. I have heard it said its like they threw various misc parts into the air and what ever came down closest was used on that car. Next car got other parts. It was by accident I discovered my inside handles used only on 614 / 618 1932 Durant's were used on 1930 Essex. Guess Dominion picked up those parts from the defunct Essex Co. Our 31 D's used the spear handles of the 30 but dash of 619 type. Dominion cars can be really weird with parts, especially the Frontenac. Ask Gord sometime. Interesting to see the Fronty on a Durant frame right from factory and other quirks he told me.

Luv back at ya
Normie

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Hi Julie,
Welcome to the DMAC. Think you will find the members and club to be the greatest around. Always willing to help a fellow member.
Seems they have the subject covered, so I will just say again, WELCOME !!!

Yates & Doris Milton

Where Are You From? Four Oaks, NC

Do You own a car built by Durant? 23 Durant Touring

Hi Julie:
Glad to hear of another Durant in the works in Ontario. If you send me an email with your particulars I will add you to our Ontario mailing list. We have one gathering a year, the last threee years have been in Guelph. Not sure where for 2011. Not that far from Beaverton.
Gord Curl

Where Are You From? Guelph, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 Frontenac

Hello Frank; Accept for that round thing near the runningboard, the rims and 2 of the knobs on the dash, my car looks just like yours! Unfortunatly there is no I.D. plate on my floor board.

Where Are You From? Beaverton, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 Durant touring

Hi Julie.....

That round thing is the mount for the spare tire. Mine has dual spare wire wheels (one on each side).

The two outer items on the dash that look like large knobs are the ignition switch on left, and a cigarette lighter on the right.

I do make new reproductions of the data plates. These are blank and can be stamped with your numbers and model.

There are not many 6-17 cars in the Club.

Frank ---

Where Are You From? Hookstown Pennsylvania

Do You own a car built by Durant? a few

good to know Frank. I'm kind of a cyber dummy, could you please tell me how to get my photo's from photobucket to here?

Where Are You From? Beaverton, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 Durant touring

previous owner says it's a rugby truck engine! does that make any difference with the serial ID?

Where Are You From? Beaverton, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 Durant touring

the members response to my question has been overwhelming to say the least! I hadn't expected so many replies and quick at that! Thanks to all of you for your wealth of knowledge and support.

Where Are You From? Beaverton, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 Durant touring

Hey, we Canadians have to stick together, lol.

Rugby was the truck name after Sept 1928 US and Canada but also exported cars have this rad crest. Leaside (probably your 617 was assembled there), was exporter to Europe etc. In Australia, England, etc, the name is Rugby not Durant or Star.

However there is a Rugby touring in Napanee Ont owned by Reg Bent. For all intense its a 407 Durant otherwise. Just the crest and orig registration from factory was a Rugby.

Can't seem to find that the 15 U motor was used other than the 1930 617 Durant.

Do you have the VIN number on ownership. If the letter is a T, the car was made Toronto (Leaside).

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

sending you an email Julie about posting pics

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

I was doing a bit of checking on the 617, this was truly the Heinz 57 of Durant's. Biggest Durant of 1930. Like I mentioned about throwing parts into the air and using them on the 1st car .. this must have been it. Shares parts from 28 - 32.

Using the 35 and 38 parts catalogues it has body / fenders / dash / handles / hub caps / rad cap / tail light (same as 30 - 32 Durant and 31 - 32 Frontenac) , of the 1930. Splash aprons and running boards used on 618. Has its own rad core, muffler, wheels, fan and fan belt, axle shafts. Shares parts with 70 and 75 for rear end. All motor gaskets 70 and 75. Stearing knuckle arms left / right same as the 70 / 75 yet tie rod is same as the 30 - 32's. Gas tank used on 618 to serial number C1167. Universal Tillotson carb of 55, 60, 63, 65, 66 and 617. Its own headlights .. Twilite 10 1/8 lense. Goodness knows what else. Oh yes its own 15U motor, and same wheel nut wrench I found under the seat in Dot.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Where Are You From? Beaverton, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 Durant touring

Way to go Julie. I see you have the stone guard mine is missing. Was plated before my historic plates I got early 70's of HVC 401 I got for my 1931 Chevy canopy express truck. Those I hope to put on the 32 and have never been out of the plastic wrapping. Even has the orig Durant robe rail on back of the front seat with the V's or spear motif. Looks very complete and a good project.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Julie:
Right now there is a brochure for a 6-17 Durant on ebay. Sold by McGee out of Goderich. He has a lot of literature.
see item #120421035219

Gord

Where Are You From? Guelph, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 Frontenac

That car must have been used! Judging by the smoothness of the brake pedal. Looks like a great project though. It's going to be hard to beat(not that we're in competition), Mike Larson's 6-17. I saw it about half way done, and it's going to be a beaut. Ross

Where Are You From? Orygun

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 6-14 coupe

hey guys,
remember the model 70 1929 and i think model 75 also had 15u engines...

Unc Gary .. does it hurt to think .. wouldn't want to hear your not well after .. nefu Norm

I have 14L used 27 / 28 Star and Durant which became 15L later. Can't seem to find where that info came from for each motor used. I hand added the 617 as 15U long after I had my list of motors from 1922 to 1933. Might have been from comments on Forum a couple of years ago about 617. Terry's site doesn't give engine used.

However Unc Gary you might be correct. Using Jon's site (Carb King) The carburetor shop ... he indicates a 248 cid motor for 70, 75 and 617. This would be from Branhams info. The other sixes are 185 cid 28 / 29.

Ah an email I kept from April 2007. Seems to be a 15U and 20E at 248 cid. This was plucked from DMAC site back then on motor sizes and sent to me, excludes the 32A.

Julie
So I am slow at seeing the trees for the woods. You have the historic plate on the car. If the ownership paper is lost MOT will have the VIN and model info. They won't tell you who the owners name is. As I mentioned I have the HVC plates never on my vehicle from the early 70's. Ownership paper I thought was lost, when my desk opened on the Queensway, when I moved here in the late 70's. White tornado of things flying up, sigh. Lost all my grandfather's British penny black / penny red stamps from the mid 1800's and Lord knows what else. Then a light came on, that when I sold my 31 truck I had to sign the ownership paper to the new owner. You don't have to give the new owner your plates, you can move them from one vehicle to another you own. I called MOT two years ago to see if the plates were still in my name. Sure were and can use them on the 32, however my address is Toronto. Never lived there in my life. Has to be the owner I signed the paper part over to. Thats not a problem and can be up dated when Dorothy is road worthy, and new info is added to the HVC plates.

That's why we can use year of manufacture plates of our cars. MOT has all the plate info in their files. They check to see the old plates are ok to be used on the vintage vehicles. Part I am not crazy about, it seems they want you to mail the old plates to them to run the check, before allowing them. And if not approved they keep them ??

There's two files. Over heard the license office girl asking another where she would find my HVC plate info. I was transferring ownership of Dorothy to me from the 1961 ownership paper at the time, and asked what was involved to update the HVC plate info. The other girl said its in the old system files, not new one. Never know what one overhears. Told my girl not to bother for now and can be done later.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Hi Everyone, I was following the posting and just wanted to let people know we do carry the handles, dash spears, robe rail brackets, rad caps, etc. for these models and many other models/years of Durants.
Many parts are currently in stock. Our email is nbutters@eagle.ca and phone (905) 372-6926

Where Are You From? Ontario Canada

uncle normie,
don't you remember????a 1929 model 70 with 15u motor was one of the ones i sold to frank...and larry fogorazzo has a 75 with ther same motor.....
I thunk to hard to remember all that and so i now need to take a nap...that car has lights like you need the lens from, doesn't it?????
luv ya..nefuw gary....oh and welcome to our group Julie...it is an amazing bunch of durant men....we call us "durantonians".....your car is alot like my 1931 6-14 sedan.....but i have woody wheels....

Yep Unky Gary ... Julies car is all 30 frame up but 28 / 29 running wise. Mixed bag of parts, spans 5 years. Two years before and 2 years after. And yes someone has converted the fender parking lights to signal lights. One of the 1st things that caught my eye was those lights and both lenses I'm looking for one of. Most poorly made lights I've run across. Pots won't stay on the light bulb stand. Have no idea what holds them on. No rivets, screws, bolts or weld. The oval hole is absolutely smooth on my passenger one, I found in the back of the car. Both mine were filled with lead or weld in an attempt to keep them on by some former owner. Nearly always missing if you find a car in barn etc. Actually this summer I was looking at a 1930 614 Special sedan in a barn near Carleton Place and both pots were missing. Got a bare light (no lense or foot) from a vendor this spring and it was solidly welded in and out but welded wrong way. These are lefts and rights, this one is half way, so to mount it the lense would face sideways, away from the rad shell.

No I didn't know you sold Great Unc Frank a 70. Thought you had a Chevy motor in your 29 car and suddenly you sold it to ?? and got the 1930 coach.

Nefu Norm

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Julie

Julie

Hi, I'm Julie. my husband and I just bought a 1931 Durant restoration project. The engine has ID numbers galore but how do you figure out which Model it is? Our car has 4 doors, 5 metal spoked tires/spare mounted at rear, signal lites on front fenders, and has a soft top roof. I'm told it has Rugby flat 6 cyl. 4 speed engine. the passenger side of the engine has an ID plate with -15u-6354 and on the drivers side, piston part of motor, 15ua622, 4 3 30. Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.

Where Are You From? Beaverton, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 Durant touring

and is it a T or L VIN number ?? Actually the plate will have the Plant name on it. Don't keep us in suspense .. lol

L-1001 and up ? Lansing
T-1001 and up ? Leaside (Toronto)

Need help in restoring questions, just post on Forum and someone is sure to answer.

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This is for Ross, Gary, and other folks. Pic taken of my 32 before I bought it home, showing we do have wire wheel rear mounts. Julies will be the same.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Norm: This should be a Lansing vehicle, as it was only about 500 away from the one listed on my reference sheet of collected Durant information.

Where Are You From? Mississauga Ontario Canada

Hi Steve .. might be but could be either. Nothing set in stone as you know. They might have brought engines in from Lansing to assemble our cars. Only see one 617 on Terrys listing for Leaside and six for Lansing with numbers in 4000 serials.

It struck me odd the 31 614 here has head Mar 24 1931 and 22AA block Mar 10 1931 serial 22977, yet Dots is head April 13 1931 and 22AA block May 13 1931 serial miles ahead 29043. 6056 higher and late 32 car. Wonder if Continental cast blocks and heads 1932 or we continued to use up earlier parts.

Ah just might have solved part of that difference. Gords and ? 32 Frontys are 28456 and 28187 but indicated as 22A not 22AA and no casting dates indicated. Again two 618's 1931 22A-29328 22A-23092 also between Stephan's 31 and my 32. Beginning to make some sense now.
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Think there is a fan belt on Ebay presently for it, if 70 and 75 used the same one. Don't know what other modifications they made 28 / 29 to the 30. Seems half the front axle parts are 70 / 75 or 30 - 32.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

there won't be any compitition here Ross! my husband and I are not only amitures but we don't have the money to restore it to its original state if you know what I mean! $5000.00 for the interior alone!

Where Are You From? Beaverton, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 Durant touring

yes mine is the same Norm.

Where Are You From? Beaverton, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 Durant touring

Ok Julie, Lansing or Leaside VIN plate, lol, L or T vin letter.

You are in the same boat as a lot of us. No $$ and on fixed pension, non indexed. Any funds for Dorothy come from found money, outside the pension. Most of us are amateurs picking away at it. Its the fun of it and talking to other owners. There's a 29 REO sedan outside Ottawa that was restored in Renfrew at over $55,000 a few years back. Never get that if resold. Its a love of the hobby thing. Old Auto's mag out of Ont, had an item about value of cars about 3 yrs ago. Happened one of the pic's was a fully restored rare 1932 618 Durant sedan with twin side months, trunk on back, and all the goodies. They said it was worth $14,000 now and same twenty years ago. Durant's are considered orphan cars, like Essex, Star, etc, and not worth a pile of money.

I couldn't afford near $2000 to rechrome the rad shell sight unseen, plus send it to Valleyfield QC. We have no chroming places anywhere near Ottawa now thanks to the Govmt enviro boys. So rather than paint it silver with a brush, (lot of lads do that, two Essex's near North Gower done that way)I had it powder coated extreme chrome for $300. Was lucky they stuck to the price given me, as it cost them $600 in work and materials. Each wheel I think they quoted $200 - $250. Not going to happen. You are not far from St Jacobs and Bast Tire Service. Last price I heard was they charge $40 a wheel. You have to talk to Scott Lloyd about it. That includes blasting, and Nucote powder coat system. Done special Fri mornings for us vintage car owners. Pick them up in the afternoon. They do truck wheels as part of their business. I haven't done it yet but a number of the Ford A owners have and are very pleased with the results. St Jacob's is not just around the corner for me.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

thanks Norm,we don't have the ownership in hand so I can't answer that question yet! should I stick with this thread to start asking restoration questions or move it to the restorations discussions?

Where Are You From? Beaverton, Ontario, Canada

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1931 Durant touring

Your choice Julie .. most seem to open new forums about questions, and or barb each other as well in fun .

Helps revive the 60's when clubs were a fun thing and we helped one another. One reason we folded AACO (Antique Auto Club of Ottawa) two years ago, we created 1965. Antique cars were 70 /80's and ours were forgotten about mainly. I understand NB club is in the same boat as AACO was. Nothing will convince me a 1985 is a vintage car, nor 70's or 60's. 40 / 50's might be old but still not vintage. The Ford A owners broke away from AACO 1975 and formed our own CCA club. (Canada's Capital A's) That's still going strong since same interests and vehicles. DMAC is much the same.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan