Ok my turn to ask questions. I pulled the floation unit out of the 32's tank, pic attached. What the heck is the thing supposed to look like and how does it work ? The center pivot part looked like some crustation off a sunken galleon and it I carefully remove bits I think the actual parts have corroded to nothing. I assume the shaft going to the sending unit must rotate back and forth but its blue mould (?) at the top. I think I need an entire unit. I believe the tank held gas since 1961 and part of that was still a liquid form that would take your nose hairs off.
Norm

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 Sedan

Norm,
I'll give it a shot.
Someone has heavily modified your unit. I have included a picture of mine and a diagram. The maker of the unit is AC.

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1930 614 De Luxe Sedan

Hi Shawn .. thanks for your pic's. No my unit wasn't modified I don't think. Your talking a 1930 unit versus a 1932 unit. Having seen yours I seem to recall that two side pieces with shaft in the middle. Perhaps other cars used the same type as the 30 and I saw them at flea markets.
I have no idea what the difference is but my 1935 Leaside catalogue says 614 gas tanks above and below VIN B4364 are different. (B being 1931 and mine a J for 32) To me that might mean Durant Motors versus Dominion Motors cars. Theres a few places 614 is mentioned for differences. Not having anything 1932 to refer to, if we even had owners manuals etc, I can't say. If you look at the 1932 618 in photo's, at the bumpers you will note they don't look like your 619's on Waynes or Franks cars, nor do the bumper medallions. Your bumper ends are closed and ours are open for the 1932 614 / 618. Ours have diamond shaped medallions which don't match the 619 oval rounded ones. Door handles in and out don't match your 619's either. What does match is the gold dash plate whereas the Frontenac is silver. Frontenac was supposely a continuation of the US 619 but its bumpers / handles don't match and not to the 614 / 618 either.

I stopped chipping off the crustation when I noted what seemed to be gear teeth. I could see the dark gray with white lines I assume were the spaces between the teeth. There's nothing left of the pot metal gears except what once was. Its like dinosaur bones being replaced by mud so we now have stone images of the bones.

Anyway it looks like I need a unit and I doubt it makes any difference what year in the 30's Durant or Frontenac. 5 bolt to hold it on would be the same.

Norm

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 Sedan

Norm and Shaun
I think these were standard and used for many years and manufactured by another company for Durant. My 1928 tank float and sender is identical to yours. Be careful the gears in the bottom are pot metal and break easily. I know a couple of teeth have broken off mine. There are some companies in Hemmings that advertise repair of these units. Haven't tried any yet, but will send mine off for repair. Some of the metal rusted fairly easy.

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1928 Durant Model 65 4 door

Norm These are Stewart-Warner parts and should still be available. I'll bet Gordon Curl knows the number off the top of his head. Gordo? Roscoe

1st my apologies Shaun for mis writing your name. That's one name I have trouble with, with all the different ways of spelling it. I used to run a cub pack and had 6 Sean, Shawn, Shaun, Saun's, and you think I could get it right ? Just wrote my friend and mentioned Shawn from Scout camp and realized after he spelled his Sean.

Looked again Mike at the parts thing. Hopefully soon the PO will bring a photo copy of a 38 Leaside catalogue being mailed from Toronto. It seems to have more details as to parts than mine. I gather there are several of these catalogues and none are the same. Mine just gives a generic W8A carb for all 22A motors D or F. The 38 one mentions J4A, J6A and J7A used on our cars. J5A isn't mentioned used on 619 with it being US only car. I'm catching on a lot of our info isn't carried US books and catalogues, for our Canadian only cars ,and vice versa.

Anyway my 35 mentions Gasoline
Gauge 26025 for tanks 60, 63, 65, 66, 70, 75 as $1.75.
Gauge 40181 for E, 407, 611, 614, 618, 670 as $1.45.
Gauge 45197 for C400, C600 $2.85.
So it seems your 65 is different to to our gauge. I'm assuming this refers to the entire float arrangement. But which style ??? probably generic like the carbs.

What I don't understand is one Gasoline Dash Gauge
40402 for 406, 407, 416, 611, 614, 615, 616, 617 $2.45
42884 for E, 618, 670 $1,75
I understood our Dominion, Durant / Frontenac's, used same dash and gauges 31 / 32. Most likely same as the 619 as we have the same dash cluster. I know the dash cluster is different shape for the 1930 D's and gauges aren't the same nor fasten the same, in the dash plate.

Having said that. Heat Indicators (Temp Gauge) has only one shown. I know for a fact the 30 uses two part electric temp gauge. (seems so does the 65) Element part on the cyl head and the gauge on the dash. 619 and our Dominion cars have one piece cyl head element to dash gauge, mercury (?) filled. So how much faith you can put in these catalogues ??

Stewart Warner ... hummm might be good news after all.

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 Sedan

sorry Rosco. Don't have any replacement numbers, but the gauge that Shaun shows is the same as that used in the Frontenac.

Gord

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 Frontenac

Dear friends,
I am also about to restore my gas tank gauge which seems to be leaking. The cork gasket which rests on the round glass seems to be in bad shape.
I am also interested to know where can I find a unit to buy.
Which should be the right gas tank gauge for for my 1927 RUGBY, Model M ? Here in Brazil it should be impossible to find one. Please, I count on your help :)
Thank you all in advance,

Dib Franciss

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yes, a 1927 Rugby, Model M

Interesting Gord .... Don't know why this is so dark but another view of the unit. Its definitely one piece steel bar bent at the right angles and seems to look identical to Shaun's top part with the shaft coming out of the top sending unit. His has a bolt to hold the gears in place and mine whatever was there is riveted firmly on the back side of the steel part, where Shaun's bolt head is. That rivet knurling is plainly visible to me. Its what was gears, is a lump of nothing now. Wonder if we used two different types of units ? It was well encrusted with dirt outside on the tank and bolt heads filled in. I had to clean them out in order to remove them, so I very much doubt this unit isn't original to the car.

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 Sedan

Don't have to worry about teeth Mike, they are a distant memory to this unit, both gears are. I sent an email to Stewart Warner Feb 21st and I guess they chose to ignore me. I saw on their site it mentioned ohms and units something like this.
Gord in NS asked for both the dash gauge and this entire unit to see if someone he knows might have one in his bag of tricks. My wife said no way are we sending parts of the car and have those lost. Do we know the ohmage of such a unit ??

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 Sedan

SEEMS ALOT LIKE THE UNIVERSAL ONES THEY SELL TODAY...THE DOWN BAR CAN BE BENT TO MATCH AND OR CUT TO THE CORRECT LENGTH SAME AS THE SAMPLE. I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY HAVE 6 VOLT BUT A VOLTAGE DROP WOULD PROBABLY WORK.

I'd sure like to find a working unit or substitute. Not so fussy, since the thing can't be seen once installed. My current gauge works well, but I have to get out of the car to use my calibrated wood paint stirrer.

Thanks Wayne .. don't feel as bad now. I use a stick on the Ford 2000 at the trailor park I help look after during the summer, so thought I might as well use a stick on Dorothy also ,once I get to that point. Seems a few of the cars units don't work well or if all. Haven't found any replacements as of yet.

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 Sedan

There are a number of Co's selling sending units but has anyone any idea of the resistance on full and empty for our gauges ?? Are they the same pre and post 30 D's ??

for example
Stewart Warner: Full 29-33 ohms / Empty 244-250 ohms
General Motors: Full 91-93 ohms / Empty 0-2 ohms
Ford/Chrysler: Full 70-73 ohms / Empty 0-2 ohms
All Stewart Warner fuel senders meet the SAE standard for five bolt flange pattern.

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 Sedan

Still haven't quite given up on this. I have the SW one reversed full /empty, mentioned above. I did send emails to SW about this last year but was ignored.

Fingers crossed I have a lad trying to repair my tank. Like Vern has discovered there's no one around here now that does rads / gas tanks or makes them. The fun of owning an orphan car and being orphaned up here in Canada's capital. Most places are west of Toronto in southern Ont for repairs, parts, tires, etc.

However I tried a different tactic and contacted the Canadian SW branch in Belleville and this time got a reply. Putting an ohmmeter on my frozen unit I get 65 ohms, which makes sense with the float not fully down thanks to liquid gas (?) still in the tank since before 1961, I assume. That tends to make me feel the 240 unit might be the one for car, perhaps Waynes 619 as well. Here's the reply so we don't need Gary's suggestion of a voltage drop to 6 volts. If it isn't then down the road I might join Wayne with my own gas stick.
---------------------------
Norman

I cannot find any information relevant to your situation? The only suggestion I could make would be to try the 1 of our 3 senders we have available. The senders are voltage independent so you can use them on 6v 12v or 24v. As long as the gauge is the proper voltage, which yours is a 6v the sender will function properly if the ohms resistance is correct. We have 2
different resistances of sender. A 240ohm sender which we use for all a/m Stewart warner fuel
gauges. We also have a sender we made to match GM gauges which are 90ohms. A 240 ohm sending would be your best bet but this of course is just speculation on my part.

Thanks
Chad Carter
Stewart Warner

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

tanks, the dealer has a universal tank, slightly squarish the filler on top and to one side and looks like a close replacement to the squarish 1929 tanks....cost just about what it costs to clean and refurbish but it is new....see any hot rod magazine or www.tanks.com i guess
....gary k
p.s....my gas guage/gauge....is a replacemwent gm gauge sender unit and looks just like yours and is adjustible....

Where Are You From? penna

Hi Unc Gary .... that tank site you show seems to only have storage silo's for storing bulk items, not automotive tanks.

Tried a few rod sites for gas tanks but none have the triangle type used on Dominion cars. Of course you can buy a new tank for any Ford T or A at Mac's or Moir's and I saw 32 Chevy at one hot rod site. That's one reason the D lads keep asking where they can get one made.

I wondered what the difference was in the 1935 catalogue for 614's above VIN B4364. The 29 are squarish, the 1930 are cylindrical, and above that B vin they are triangular shaped. At least that's what I understand as of now. Thought the Fronty dash gauge would be the same as the 614 but they seem to have their own gauge.(and cheaper also, ha ha. D $4.90 F $1.75 ) However the sending units are same for D and F.

You saying your 614 unit is a GM one at 90 ohms not 240 ?? sigh .. throw a monkey wrench into it again.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Again this does not let me correct a mail if still within a 59 min range.

I did a bit more looking at Stewart Warner site and I had the ohms correctly the 1st time SW is reverse to GM unit. Now I am really confused if my unit is frozen at 65 and not fully down to empty. Took both my bro and myself to carry the tank after we took it off, so have no idea how much 50 yr old gas was in it.

http://www.stewartwarner.com/Tech/faqSd.html

The range for Stewart Warner fuel senders are: Empty - 220 to 260 ohms; 1/2 tank - 80 to 120 ohms; full tank - 20 to 50 ohms. This is normally noted as 240 ohms at empty and 33 ohms at full.

GMAC fuel tank sender will read in the opposite direction. At empty, it will read zero ohms and at full it will read 90 ohms.

Ford/Chrysler fuel tank sender will read zero ohms at empty and 73 ohms at full.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

hi norm
when i built my 32 plymouth hot rod i bought a universal tank sending unit at my local hot rod supply if you strike out looking for a original try this route or try a restoration supply they have a sliding float that will allow you to adjust to the depth of your tank .
brian boys

Where Are You From? victoria bc

Do You own a car built by Durant? 26 star

Hi Brian, realized after my comments its even worse now. Ross mentioned it was a SW unit, not an AC, not that makes any difference I shouldn't think. Gary said he used a GM unit. From SW or GM ?? Then going into SW site again I find SW universal has 240 ohms empty yet GM unit is reversed and 0 ohms empty. That in turn makes a big difference to the dash gauge working or not, or what its expecting, 90 or 240 or ?? and what flow.

Tried wire brushing the top of the unit hoping it might have a stamping with number like 90 - 0 but nothing to give a clue. Going to drill out the two brass rivets holding the cap to unit and maybe there's a clue there.

Princess Auto has a universal unit. Acklands Grainger has several units. I have a catalogue from Horton Hot Rod Parts and they carry gas tanks for Ford 1928 to 1955 and Chevy 1931 to 1954 and Dodge / Plymouth 35 - 39, plus universal tanks. Oddly enough I don't see any sending unit mentioned.

Gord was telling me about a few Frontys, a couple of years ago, and none matched each other for shocks, his outside handles don't match any other, and a Fronty built on a Durant frame.

What a Co Durant was of mickey mousing parts to push cars out the door. Still say the motto should have been "No Two Cars The Same".

Should have gotten a Model A with ball in the side of the gas tank and none of this nonsense.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

sorry normie, here is correct address....

www.tamksinc.com
1-320-558-6882

regard, gary k

Where Are You From? penna

normie...forget my sender being gm...i have a gm gauge...but its in my 46 pontiac but looks the same as yours...only 12 volts....sorry....gary

Where Are You From? penna

As the SW guy said, the sending unit is independent of voltage. 6 or 12 shouldn't make a difference. It's just a reostat where the resistance changes as the float moves up and down. It's the guage itself that varies by voltage as it measures the current flowing through the circuit as the resistance changes.

As to which sender type, GM or SW, maybe someone with a working unit could measure the resistance with their tank not full and then with it full. I suspect that all Durant-made cars at the time used the same type of sender.

My car doesn't have a guage so I can't do this. Can someone with a working unit help Norm on this?

Where Are You From? North of San Francisco

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1925 Star

Not so sure Vince with both 35 and 38 catalogues saying gas tank gauge for various models is different as are dash gauges, pre and post 1930. Perhaps having to do with shape of tanks ??? Says the 60, 63, 65, 66, 70 and 75 has same tank gauge. I thought 60 / 63 were glass gauge on tank. Only gives dash gauge for 64 / 75 as same, and 66 / 70 as same and no dash gauge for 60 / 63.

Gary ...thanks phew. Yes the Pontiac and many cars have same looking units. Ya had me staring at the blue blob a few times last night. I'm almost 99 % positive the gear teeth are on the same side where the float arm is imbedded in the gear. I can just about make out a very tiny gear that turns the shaft in the sending head and white marks that seem like teeth on the bigger gear. Presently it gives the impression the gear is dead center of the tiny one.

Having rambled about that. I sat a few times to make sure I knew which way the shaft would have turned empty to full. I did drill out the 5 rivets and pop the unit apart. So cool, wasn't sure what I would find inside. Not a bunch of coiled wires etc but a simple spring loaded copper plunger that touches the resistance plate around the inside of the cap as the shaft turns. Used the ohmmeter and it seems to go from 0 - 100 ohms. Now taking into consideration the way the shaft turns its 0 resistance when full and 100 ?? when empty. Hard to determine exactly the resistance when the unit was functioning and could have been the reverse GM of 0 - 90. That's why I said phew when Gary said his wasn't a GM unit. That had me thinking maybe Chevy were positive ground and maybe why Gary's worked with neg ground on Durant's. Just wildly pulling at straws.

Stink ... my wife said it just stunk up the kitchen and had the same black oily substance the tank did. Guess fumes from the tank went up the shaft hole years back and got trapped in there. I didn't realize once I had the cap off the 5 mounting holes are not equally spaced. It only goes together in one position that the 5 holes are all matched other wise only 4 holes line up. Another senior moment of not marking unit to cap before separating it and panic ... aughhh how did the two halves sit before I took it apart ?

Guess the SW one would give me a reading but seems to much resistance. Ron worked on this for his 407 a few years back and finally gave up. He could get the dash gauge to correctly work using other means. Tried a number of different sending units. The highest his gauge will read is 1/2 full and then heads for empty. For him, a 1/2 tank on the gauge is full and 1/4 full is half full using one of those units.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Norm
I just got my gas tank sending unit repaired and reconditioned by Atwater Kent Manufacturing Company in Mass. did a great job and if yours cannot be reconditioned they will make you a new one. They put all new gears in it, and rebuild the electrics on top.

Where Are You From? Oviedo (near Orlando) Florida

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1928 Durant Model 65 4 dr

Thanks Mike .. those folks have been around since Christ was a lance corporal. Lots of cars 1900 and up used Atwater Kent items. If I recall correctly they made an accessory distributor for Ford T's that replaced the commutator on front of the block.

Have been emailing to see what his place might do. I think vintage car to them means 1960's or later, ha ha. http://tristarrradiator.com/index.html

That's what surprised me once I opened the top and found no rheostat that seems to show in Shaun's AC sketch. Same type sketch as the Dykes manuals. Dykes doesn't even mention SW units. Couldn't be more simple. Thin band of metal around the inside of the cap with bakelite (?) to protect it from touching the cap metal, and spring loaded copper plunger at 90 degrees to the turning shaft that touches this band. Nothing electric to redo up there. Nothing even worn. The plunger just barely touches the band, ever so very lightly.

It seems we need a reverse GM unit perhaps that has 0 full and 90 empty. Acklands Grainger are all 240 (12 volt not that that matters) and different units based on depth of tank, so not adjustable arms. .

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Mike you have an email or site for Atwater Kent ? All I see is radios etc.

Should have used my brain and checked Todds site on Plymouth , hood strip etc.He's run into the same problem with sending units and what's offered today. Didn't know you could flip the resistance part so GM unit works our way of 0 when full but as he says this isn't right either. Also the 5 holes have to be drilled larger to mount universal ones. Here's his info on sending units.

http://www.ply33.com/Repair/fuelsender2.html

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Latest from Tod.

Since I haven't had the financial fortitude to order a supposedly duplicate of original sender from Atwater-Kent, I've been living with the terrible inaccuracy of a new generic sender. It reads full when full but then quickly drops to about 1/4 at about 3/4 of an actual tank. And it reads slightly above empty on an empty tank. So basically
all the time its reading between 1/8th and 1/4th of a tank. I actually use a stick to verify how much gas is in the tank too.

If you want to contact Atwater-Kent, the web site is:

Atwater Kent Manufacturing Company
2 Jacques St.
Worcester, MA 01603
Telephone: +1.508.792.9500
http://atwaterkentmfg.com/

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Norm
I received my unit back from AK and they did a
great job. They restored mine. Since you can't find
these anymore your kind of at their mercy. They're
making up a temp sending unit for me also. I'll let everyone
know how the unit is when I get it in.

Where Are You From? Oviedo,florida

Hi Mike ... couldn't see an e addy for them, guess its phone or write.
Think my sending unit should be simple replace gears as there's nothing up top to be fixed or replaced.

Your heat gauge 65 and 75 is two piece electric dash gauge / element in head, much like the 30 D's. Mine is one piece non electric, with tube now cut behind the dash and jobber hanging off dash bottom. Unfortunately I can't use a 30 set up as gauge is different. Like 28 / 29 parts don't fit post 30 cars, the 30 dash gauges are likewise to the 31 / 32 dashes.

Would have been nice if Billy uniformed parts model to model and year to year.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Well you could use the reverse ohm unit and just read the guage backwards!

Where Are You From? North of San Francisco

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1925 Star

Humm Vince ... Seems we can reverse the rheostat on the GM one but its still not right. Tod hasn't told me what his unit is presently.

Did you check out Tods site on this problem ? Its a good site of info on things. Seems he even has the roof woodwork there, my bro noted. Haven't checked that out as yet.

Still have no idea what the Durant ohms were for 31 / 32. Checking out Atwater Kent site they a number of cars of our vintage and all different sending units required. Noted not one Durant was mentioned on any listing. Essex, Hup, Lasalle, Hudson, Willys Knight. Oakland etc etc.

http://atwaterkentmfg.com/Fuel%20Senders.htm

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Norm
Looking at the pictures of your unit I bet the guys at Atwater Kent could restore your unit. Mine was a bit worse and they put new gears, brass rod down the middle and rewired the top piece. He did mine for $165. Might be worth the money rather than go through all the trouble.

Where Are You From? Oviedo (near Orlando) Florida

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1928 Durant Model 65 4 dr

Maybe you could just buy the gears from them. I have had luck lightly sand blasting them in a blast cabinet. You have to be gentle though. Just lightly "dust" them.

Dave

Where Are You From? Iowa

Hi Dave .. I have wondered that for sometime now. You can see the "gears" on mine are one blue blob. The center shaft is brass and the upper sending unit has no wires inside. To me all it needs is two gears and float arm. Arm you can take off any universal unit. Atwater might still have to see the unit if gearing is different to other units.

Wish I knew who the fellow was in NS who has piles of nos sending units, Gord Taylor knew. That info died with him.

My chum here says it shouldnt be difficult to ad hoc upper orig and universal lower. Hummm not sure about that.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan

Still playing with this. I just noted Shaun's unit is opposite side, geared to mine. Still a single wire connection on the side of cap, I assume 5 bolt fastening. My float arm is on the right of the gear and Shaun's is left side. So his unit turns the opposite way to mine.

Nothing surprises me with these cars.

Mike question for you. Your unit a 4 or 5 bolt fastening one ? I know of a NOS unit that's 4 bolt and two connections on top of the unit. Friend of mine says it looks like his 60 unit. Again the catalogues say pre and post 30 sending units different. Of course no pic's to refer to anything to get an idea what they look like. If the unit works and is correct ohms (or close) perhaps I could drill the 5 holes but not sure why two wire connections on the top of the cap. Seems geared same as Shaun's

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1932 614 sedan