I have a couple of related oil pump questions -1923 Durant 4 cylindar. Oil reads full on dip-stick fill tube. 1- I took the oil pump off the side of the engine and expected oil to run out but no oil came out. is that normal?
2- How does the pump pick up oil to pump into the engine? Evidently it is not a sump.
3- The top of the pump is tapped and a brass tube goes up to the level of the valve cover with a shut-off valve. I assumed that it would have a rubber hose attached for oiling the valve assembly occasionally. Is that correct? Or is the tube for something else?

Howdy Jack,

Looking at my parts book, our A-22 Durants have a screened basket that hangs from a strap bracket, they have an oil suction pipe that goes to the botton of the basket and has fittings that connect to the back side of the block port that the oil pump bolts too(not sure of the exact connection)...There should NOT be a tube to oil the rocker arms, there is however an 1/8" pipe plug in the top of the oil pump for priming the pump....I would suspect that if your engine has not been ran for a great deal of time and the fact that no oil came back out of the main galley that your pump could have simply lost it's prime or it is loosing it's prime by sucking air(mounting gasket,loose or cracked suction pipe or that overhead oiler add on)...I would suggest that before you restart your engine that you pump clean motor oil in your oil galley to get some lube to the bearings then prime the oil pump and see if the pump will then pick up on it's owne...The valves are lubercated with an approximate !/2" felt pad that lays directly on the rocker arms and should occasionaly be lubercated through the holes in the valve cover...Hope this is of some help, let us know how you make out...Bill

Bill is correct There is a screened tube in the bottom of the pan that picks up oil. One problem after opening the oil pump is the need to prime it. If you do not have a split or hole in the pickup tube you should have oil preassure after priming the pump. Pour some oil into the pump or put a little grease on the oil pump gears and you should get oil preassure as soon as you start the engine.

Bill, Tom,

Thanks for the good info. I'll make sure that there are no air leaks in the pump, although I have already found a 1/2 missing gasket between the pump and block and made a new gasket. I'll use the extension tube to prime the pump and use 20 W 50 Pennzoil in the crank case. Is that good? What about dropping the pan and cleaning the filter screen. Is that necessary? Can it be cleaned or flushed without dropping the pan? Who makes a pan gasket? Or do I need to make that also?

Thanks a great deal you guys...This was a great help to me also on my 23.

Yates

Hi,Jack I think you want to stick to sae 30 non detergent oil these vehicles do not have a great filtering system or any at all? as for cleaning your screen out it is a good idea to remove old sludge from it , it will be easier on the pump if the screen is clean . only my two cents .

When it comes to oil I think we each have our own preferences, the oil pressure on our A-22 engines is regulated at 5 lbs pressure, that is 5 lbs not 50 lbs, I found with my car even with a streight 40w oil I had my 5 lbs oil pressure running cold but had zip at an idle when warm, I went to a 20w 50 and now have a full gauge running hot or cold and have about a half gauge at hot idle, It seams that the 20W 50 gives another layer of regulation that is needed... Anyway, I think it is the best thing that has came along since the flush toilet...Bill

Is the 20w50 weight detergent oil? Noticed any problems running that? If you can run regular oil without any problems, I bet you could run synthetic oil. Anybody out there running synthetic oil in their car?

Interesting Point, No problems since I have been using the 20W-50 oil in all my old cars,only benifits...I would like to know who is still making or marketing non-detergent oil and does it say non-detergant on the can? According to my oil distributor they haven't made non-detergant oil since all the oils have started using additives, what actually is a non-detergant oil and are we confusing a fixed weight oil as being a non-detergant?...To raise a few more eyebrows I am using a multipurpose supplimental oil called "power Punch" (marketed for years on the west coast)in all my gear boxes, It is a 100% patrolium product and can be used at 100% by volume for extream gear pressure applications, (not so much because that black stuff contains animal fat but because it is much easier to clean up off the garage floor)...

yes , they still make non detergent oil you can find it at your local Wal MART store,the can does say non detergent S A E 30. Using detergent oils they clean out your engine just great but , were does this sludge go, back around into your bearings , babbit, and so on with no filter to remove this before it does its damage.

I would think that with a new rebuilt engine, there would not be much sludge to worry about, not to mention if you change your oil at regular intervals, you should not have the sludge, Right? I know in my 71 TR6 which of course was made when detergent oil was being produced I've switched to Red Line synthetic oil. When I change it it is dark but not as black as the regular oil, and no sludge at all. It also retains its viscosity and doesn't break down as much as regular oil. Where's the oil experts out there?

Thanks Steve, yes I have always heard that the detergant oil will cut the sludge build-up but I know all my engines are clean and usually get their oil changed at less than 500 miles...I am courious if that Walmart non-detergent is a name brand oil or a re-cycled oil...During the hungry days I used to let my dollar by more at the Wigwam store, and buy there genaric recycled oil which was all non-detergent and loaded to the hilt with sulfer and parifin....Mike, my good friend Jack Melpass who started this thread is an oil expert and just retired from Shell Oil after 40 years, Jack says he is going to use 20W-50 Pensoil and that is good enough for me...Jack, why Pensoil and not Shell Oil???Ha. Take care...Bill

Bill, You let the cat out of the bag but I only had 35 years at Shell. I was enjoying the reply post and all good info./opinions. I promise to get a true oil expert's opinion from the Shell Oil research lab and post it on this web. By the way, Shell Oil bought both Pennzoil Corp and Quaker State about 2003. So I'm still buying the company brand. My original post was should I drop the pan to check the screen and pick up tube??? and who has a pan gasket???

Yes, you probably should take a few minutes and pull your pan and clean things up then you will no more about what you have got, at the same time check over your suction pipe for anything loose or cracked...On your pan gasket, Olson Gasket may have a set, but often Olsons don't carry the gaskets that you can easly make yourself, they will want you to send them a pattern and then you may as well make the gasket yourself...Just get a roll of cork from the parts house, you may have to use a double thickness at the ends or a thicker piece of cork, put a little dab of silicone in the corners...Good luck with your project...Bill

Bill
Yes I did not know we had a resident expert. Jack's opinion is good enough for me. Jack what about synthetic oil? I know Shell also produces that.

Your local farm suply store will carry non detergent oils.

Not meaning to steal the thread, but has anyone had luck using an RTV gasket maker to replace cork gaskets? eg. oil pan, side covers ...

RonJ

Where Are You From? www.ronjpics.com/durantstuff.htm

Just wanted to let yoy know about my expierience with 20W-50 engine oil in my 26 Star with a W4 engine.
Even with priming the pump would not pick up the oil because it was to heavy. I switched to 5W-30 and the pump would pick up the oil no problem with 20 psi idling.Also check the clearance between the gears in the pump. Some are made of bronze and some are made of steel. Also check the spring that keeps the preasure releave closed.They get slopy and don't hold the ball bearing in place.