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Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

Either you restrict the operation of said vehicles or your customers arent properly notified of safe drive times. Most mobile jobs also provide similar liability, customers shouldn't be expecting that they be restricted from using vehicles for several hours because you are using primerless technology from 1989.

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

Auto Glass Girl
I would like some thoughts on these products. Which is the best, worst and stay away from? Thanks!


All year Express BP, for our in shop that is in our controll we use 828 or 838.. but that is few and far between..



Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

I will also agree with smiley. We use express ALL winter, most all the time. Some essex 400hv summertime, and when time is not an issue. I love the way it guns and sets. NEVER EVER use any non HV except to back up moldings. Primerless is a misnomer. regular 418 we still use for thaneing stuff like rubber falling off cowls and non structural stuff.

When doing the freightliners, columbia's splits, and most gig rig thane sets, I prefer 400HV and it sits over night. It just guns and decks WAY better than express. Primerless thanes are NOT for setting. JMHO.

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

U418, 418HV and 428 do actually use a primer ,it is incorporated into the urethane so you don't have to prime the glass. All of the newer Sika products are also primerless to glass, they just require an activator{very nasty stuff}. I think everyone needs to read the product brochures and MSDS sheets on all of the urethanes. I think you might be in for a few suprises. As a side note, pay close attention to full cure times on all urethanes, at least 24 hours at 72 degrees and 50% humidity. That's all urethanes! Remember FMVSS216!

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

I have been around since gasket sets, then Butle sets, and Butle kit with small bead of thane to back it up, then went through the gambit of thanes. Anyone remember the early 3m 2 part mixture thane. You had to work it over as fast as you could get it to mix and gun and set fast. It was one of the first fast drive time thanes WOW. I think I still have one packet laying somewhere! Might work for BODY FILLER!

Anyway I have tried a few different types of primerless to glass thanes and have tested most. They work ok for gluing things down but do NOT hold up to set w/s's and back glass or even quarter glass. I still see many customers come in with a leak problem and find adhesion failure because no primers were used. MY opinion, and procedure is to ALWAYS prime, no exceptions. Do NOT cut corners On primerless to glass. But it is your reputation and liability on the line so your choice.

I have gone back and forth over the years from Sika and DOW, and have found for my personal preference and costs to stay with DOW. Express easy kits are priced good, but most the time I buy my thane and primer separate. Senior moment I can't for the life of me to remember the number, I think 5404? Dang it I am gettin old.

Main thing, don't compromise quality for price. I know if you try to participate with networks, that dictate pricing to you, then you are forced to go as cheap as possible To be able to stay in business. But you will never make up for bad pricing by doing more of it.

Like old glass guy said, if you read some of MSDS sheets on these chemicals we deal with, you may be quite surprised. I hope cancer doesn't get me before I can even retire for a few years. In the past I saw thanes not fully cured a week later! But safe drive time and full cure are 2 separate things.

For me, the best bang for the buck without compromising quality, and workability, for me the most I use is Essex Express, And Essex 400HV, or 428HV with primers. Over all the 35 plus years This is what works for me. I hope this helps you.

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

I agree with another old glass guy. DOW products are the best on the market and much safer for the installers, health wise. More than 70% of all new car manufacturers in the world install the original glass with DOW products, so in most cases you will be bonding a DOW product to a DOW product. Now as far as safe drive away time and full cure time being separate things ,I can't agree on that. To me, a vehicle cannot be deemed safe to drive until the urethane is fully cured. One of the jobs of a windshields is to help support the roof in the event of a rollover. there is no way the windshield can do that unless the urethane is fully cured. At the SDAT most urethanes are at 150 psi, at full cure they are over 700 psi and with the betaseal express, 1000 psi at full cure. With the new updated FMVSS 216 standards going into full effect on 9/01/2015, where the roof has to support 3 times the weight of the vehicle at the front of the passenger cabin without crushing down more than 5 inches, I believe full cure is definitely necessary. I would like to hear everyone else's take on this?

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

old glass guy
I agree with another old glass guy. DOW products are the best on the market and much safer for the installers, health wise. More than 70% of all new car manufacturers in the world install the original glass with DOW products, so in most cases you will be bonding a DOW product to a DOW product. Now as far as safe drive away time and full cure time being separate things ,I can't agree on that. To me, a vehicle cannot be deemed safe to drive until the urethane is fully cured. One of the jobs of a windshields is to help support the roof in the event of a rollover. there is no way the windshield can do that unless the urethane is fully cured. At the SDAT most urethanes are at 150 psi, at full cure they are over 700 psi and with the betaseal express, 1000 psi at full cure. With the new updated FMVSS 216 standards going into full effect on 9/01/2015, where the roof has to support 3 times the weight of the vehicle at the front of the passenger cabin without crushing down more than 5 inches, I believe full cure is definitely necessary. I would like to hear everyone else's take on this?


Are you fully prepared for, or are you currently not letting the customer drive their cars for over 2 weeks or more, under current temperatures or for over a month or more, in the winter time?? Doesn't sound to practical to me, sounds like an...
Ooops....

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

The full cure time on DOW u418,u418hv,u400hv and betaseal express is 24 hours at 72 degrees and 50% humidity. Down here in Florida that's pretty much everyday. What it is at cooler temps I don't really know, none of the urethane manufacturers specify that information. At least not that I have seen. So for me, I tell my customers to wait a day to drive. Small price to pay for a safer ride. I realize you northerners don't have the same luxury all year with the weather so you have to decide what to tell your customers.

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

Thank You very much!

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

Lots of good info on this thread but I would suggest contacting your local Dow representative to clear up the minimum safe drive-away time info. It seems that the data being shared is a bit dated. I can get you a name & number; what area are you in?

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

She or he can give you some samples unless they are cheapo's

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

absurd, no customer is going to and few are able to let a vehicle set for 24 hours. All you are doing is cya for liability. The safe drive time is cya for dow and has a decent extra built in.

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

I think you should use the fastest curing urethane possible.
that should be the first choice but most buy on price.

I don't think you should be able to sleep at night if you use a 24 hr urethane on a daily basis.

what urethane would you use for your Mom or your child if he/she was driving the car right after the install.
That is what you should use.

I use Sikatack mach 30 because its the right thing to do and a great product.

We all have our opinions and it gets heated like "Ford over Chevy" but the reality of this isn't about and shouldn't be about brand loyalty but about customer Safety.

I think the right question here isn't is "418 better"? its is "418 what's right for my customer and their family"?.


Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

I agree! The safety of your customer and the liability of your shop should come first, outweighing the cost of urethane. Only you can decide which is more important to your business.

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

My windshield was just removed & "reseal Ed" /trafficked yesterday using Sima PG2 for a Volvo XC60..... Do you have any concerns regarding "that product for that vehicle"? Any comments welcomed!!

Re: Urethane 418hv, 418, 428 plus thoughts

good god nate that post was from 2018 and this thread started in 2015
have you been asleep by a tree?

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