Who is liable during the interim of installation to recalibration if the driver gets into an accident?
Question: we've all seen cars going down the road in bad need of a wheel alignment & the car is traveling kinda sideways, does this affect the camera calibration if the car gets an alignment & now travels straight?

I've been listening to a few folks speak about re-calibration, and are asking some interesting questions that make me pause...

If recalibration is such a necessity, due to a windshield replacement, the theory is the alignment of the camera may be effected due to the replacement of the glass. Obviously, there are other issues, such as clarity of the glass, a "lens effect" difference, like your prescription eyeglasses, since the camera sees through the new glass, and others, but for the moment, the questions at hand simply focus on the "alignment" and "visibility" issue after a replacement.

Since "alignment" seems to be at least one primary focus, several "common sense" (yes, I realize that could in itself be an oxy-moron) questions arise, when one questions "alignment".

What happens when a car hooks up a trailer or loads the trunk full, and it puts significant weight on the rear, and raises the front?

What happens when a 400lb person gets into the driver's or passenger seat and the car "tilts"?

After that, which both could cause an "alignment" issue seriously worse than changing a glass, in theory, there is "visibility".

How does the camera deal with bugs on the windshield? How about snow or ice?

How does the camera deal with blowing snow or rain?

Obviously, there's many more, but the point of all of this, are the cameras REALLY that sensitive to changing a glass, since they must be able to adapt to "real world" conditions mentioned above, and more?

I see this as, bottom line, we just don't have enough information to make informed decisions, and that information can only come from car manufacturers, via their standards of repair. It cannot come from speculative industry pundits, and certainly not from anyone that would have us assume liability for decisions THEY make for us, such as insurers, networks, and NAGS.

It also cannot come from aftermarket "recalibration" systems or companies, until or unless they are willing to state IN WRITING that their systems FULLY comply with OEM repair procedures, PERIOD. And so far I have not seen that. If THEIR recalibration data and parameters didn't come from the car manufacturers, then where DID it come from, and what GOOD is it, really??

Food for thought, and JMHNLO.

Mark1, as usual I agree with your common sense approach to this question. And there are more questions than answers. As my pappy used to say, "you just can't teach common sense." The auto glass industry is proof that he was right.

Agree Mark.

We have raised similar points before and believe that if the ADAS systems are so sensitive to tiny changes then they must be unreliable in real world conditions. Tire pressure changes/overweight passengers, weather, etc.

Personally I don't believe a word. These systems can be useful. However, lets be honest, the fundamental purpose from the dealers point of view is to have owners come back to the dealer for service/maintenance.

In 5 years time when these vehicles are out of warranty and on their second owner, im certain techs will be switching off the devices, installing a standard glass and tucking the wires behind the headlining as we now do with many of the rain sensors. Given the choice to save thousands of dollars customers will ultimately decide.

As for liability, I guess you would get a customer to sign off on the risk. These are NOT critical safety devices, they only offer optional assistance.

On a positive note, its making life difficult for the networks who work on flat rates of pay for exotic windscreen installs. This pleases me no end.

Nothing is perfect and all of you bring up very valid points. To answer the original question, liability is always there. The question is who has the most. The last person or entity involved with changing the original specs is the most liable. Changing the windshield changed the specs so the installing company has the liability until the specs are restored. Until then the last entity that touched that vehicle has the liability.

I believe that the ADAS technology is in its infancy and new and better self-calibrating systems will be found in the future. I believe that systems that account for subtle changes in vehicle and weather related variables will be overcome by self adjusting systems. If they can change your seat, radio and mirror adjustments based on the particular key fob entering the vehicle, they can certainly self-adjust a mounted camera to adjust for vehicle variables.

Car-makers and engineers are smarter than you think. All they need is the motivation and I think the motivation is the insurance lobby and the consumer at large.

Let's put this to bed.

Every car brochure for every single vehicle I've researched ALWAYS, without exception, has a disclaimer that basically states that ADAS technology is not a substitute for the driver. So WHY would an *aftermarket* auto glass shop be held to a higher standard than the OEM of said vehicle???

a few quick examples....

2017 NISSAN MAXIMA
Blind Spot Warning is not a substitute for proper lane change procedures. The system will not prevent contact with other vehicles or accidents. It may not detect every vehicle or object around you. 5 Not a substitute for proper backing procedures. May not detect all moving vehicles. Speed and other limitations apply. See Owner’s Manual for details.

2016 CADILLAC SRX
1. Before making a lane change, always check the Side Blind Zone Alert display, check the exterior and interior rearview mirrors, look over your shoulder for vehicle and hazards and
start the turn signal

2016 MERCEDES SPRINTER
Lane Keeping Assist may be insufficient to alert a fatigued or distracted driver of lane drift and cannot be relied on to avoid an accident or serious injury.

WHen vehicle manufacturers start promising "Driver Protection" vs. "Driver Assistance", then we can start worrying about liability. So why fret over such nonsense when THEY don't even guarantee accident free driving with original equipment ADAS when the vehicle is driven off the dealer's parking lot?

http://autoglassweek.com/educational-seminars/


Wednesday

blah blah blah is correct. They are driver assists, not driver replacements. Liability is on the driver. When they take the on/off switch away, liability shifts. Also, it doesn't matter - anyone sucked in loses, even if they eventually win. Do it right and avoid the risk. As per Mark1's comment on OEM level - licensing is already an issue. Aftermarket tools leave a signature that shows it was not licensed....a properly licensed tool looks exactly like the dealer tool in the history.

http://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2017/08/01/1m-body-shop-negligence-case-highlights-absurdity-of-resistance-to-oem-procedures/
This what WILL happen.
Someone will get hurt.
Some one WILL sue.
Someone will get thrown under the BUS.
You do the Math.
Tell me who do you think is going to go bankrupt fighting this. NOT the INSURACE company that's for sure.
J.A.D. JMNLO

I don't see the relevance of this article to this conversation. If the OEM's own auto brochure has a disclaimer that basically states that ADAS is not a substitute for the driver, then the accuracy or lack there of the ADAS does not matter for accident purposes. This is ASSISTANCE TO not a REPLACEMENT FOR the driver.

The article speaks specifically of not following recommended OEM repair procedures to the integral structure of the vehicle (not an ASSISTANCE part). Now if the recommended OEM repair procedures came with a disclaimer and someone won a lawsuit even so, THEN this would be relevant argument.

I don't think it is a matter of who's liable?

If you did any work on the car YOU WILL BE NAMED IN A LAW SUIT

Get great product liability insurance, charge the maximum fair price for what you do, document and photo everything,
install to AGSC standards, have your training certifications up to date, meet a reliable attorney that you can use when the law suit comes,

Again it does not matter who is liable YOU WILL BE! Charge accordingly


remember OJ and Hillary walk free

the court system is not fair!!!!!

MY POINT is that the pressure to use cheaper and cheaper materials and lower quality parts.TO SAVE THEM MONEY! Is pushed on shops by the ever increasing pressure of the insures. Price more aggressively get more work. How do you cut coast on a already bottomed out system. CUT CORNERS. I know you all hate body shops. The same insures jamming things down your throat are the same ones for them. The story is just a glimpse into the future of what will eventfully will be your problem. Look beyond your self.