Do you think Gerber Collision, Abrr Collision or any other big competitors

work off the same discounts as everyone else?

They most likely have better pricing set up or else you would see them

fighting for a change in the current system. Helping financially back

a movement for change.

Any one have something to add?

WHERE,HOW OR WHY THE HECK IS SOMETHING or ANYTHING, BASED OFF OF a DISCOUNT? WHAT? Are you WALMART? And do you really make it a habit of discounting even more from something that is already discounted? WHAT?????

Please someone tell me exactly WHY shops have it engraved in their brain that they have to discount from nags that is already discounted??? WHAT THE H -LL? REALLY? To me that is just DUMB & Dummer yet!

Ok You Win

How about this question, Do you think that the bigger competitors as I

mentioned above work as hard as everyone else billing outside the tpa,s

having to arbitrate to get the short pays do to them?

or do you think they are treated differently by the ins. companies with

a back stage pass and proper excess to billing direct?

The reason I ask this question is they seem to be growing leaps and bounds

opening new locations and acquiring other competitors shops as does Stinklite

This can only be done if they are making a hefty profit.

Are they using the appraisal clause, short pay arbitration or any other form

of collection?

These companies and other big franchises seem to keep a low profile when it

comes to SAFELITE,LYNX,HARMON,TELEGLASS ECT. Never speaking out about or

supporting anything to challenge the current system.

The reason I ask this question is they seem to be growing leaps and bounds

opening new locations and acquiring other competitors shops as does Stinklite

This can only be done if they are making a hefty profit.


You are making a dangerous assumption, look at financial reporting to stock holders, and
see if this is a valid statement.

Wow, no kidding. After reading some you have to conclude the real money being made is marking the bill up in the middle, hold price up for themselves but down for competitors and catch the difference in their bucket on each claim as it goes by?

The problem with putting money behind a movement, is that is usually gets misappropriated. The only organization that I think truly did not waste money was the CAGG, with that being said I think almost all of them sold or went to work for Safelite!

and wait for the GH response ;)

They are also doing body work, so they controll the cost by owning a glass shop to do the work.

I worked for Auto Glass Center in Minnesota and we owned Alliance who was then a competitor of the other TPA's. We were at 19% below list across the board. Looking at what they offer me, it wasn't that bad I guess. I don't know how we survived at those prices though because I bill out more than that and it's tough to survive.

If you are billing on an average invoice pricing, manufacturing your own glass, getting paid by the Ins. Co. to process their claims & steering the majority of claims to yourself HOW CAN YOU NOT MAKE $$$$$

Simply put, they may not be.

D'Iteren openly chastised Belron for 4 or 5 quarters on their financials. There are no reports to shareholders of profits, in fact, Belron profits are routinely missing from any Belron financial statements in any thing past what most would consider vague references to profits, only to "revenue" which is sales, not profits on sales or operations.

But to the statement you made, Sglass, it's very likely that the "bigger watermelon truck" analogy and the pursuit of a consistently proven and continuously seeming to be, bankrupt business model, and the fact that such a model is forced upon everyone else in the industry as "market price", "fair and reasonable price" or "network price" is in itself the proof, especially when it comes from those who do not buy anything from this industry, but continue to make agreements with folks in this industry to provide such pricing, and the data providers to facilitate such a system.

Even Lubner himself, along with many other distributors, said years ago NAGS was a failed sales format, and with GAI contracts, even they don't use it, but when it comes to the "network shops" or even those that are "non network shops", NAGS is held out as a bible of pricing.

Answer me this: Without NAGS, how would the system work? What would this industry do? LOL The answer is simple. An open competitive market would exist, in short order, just like any other industry besides ours, or any other industry that does not have insurance industry influence.

Don't believe me? Bill without using NAGS numbers on an invoice, use your own, and see what happens. Bill by procedural, rather than hours, and see what happens. If you do not "conform" you will be ejected. Yet, nowhere is it written that you MUST use NAGS.

Hence, YEAF's consistent sig line that so many still don't understand the simplicity of: "Who's The Customer?"

As always, JMHNLO

Mark:
I wish I could count how many times in litigation with Insurance companies their attorneys have accused me of, "not using Nags correctly." Are you kidding me? I mark up the "benchmark" my standard amount. I bill by the hours Nags shows. I charge for the urethane, moldings and parts used, and if we do the job onsite I charge a mobile fee(as does slite).

I'm short paid for my mark up even though Nags shows examples in their book of a reasonable mark up. I'm shorted for my labor even though Nags insisted we should be charging a reasonable labor amount. I'm told, "we don't pay a mobile fee", even though Nags says we should and includes a part number for mobile fees. I'm shorted for my urethane charg even though I'm billing half of what Nags allows and I always use 1 hr urethane.

The icing on the cake is when insurance companies occasionall claim I should have billed a lower price because the dealer price is lower than the Nags price! My new motto is, "you can't make this stuff up."

Finally, I never ever want to hear another person say that I used Nags glass. Nags doesn't manufacture glass. Ther is no such thing as Nags glass! Arghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

I use Nags because it's a formula I've used for almost 40 years. If they were gone tomorrow I would have no problem creating my own formula. If I were not able to do that I shouldn't be in business. Come to think of it maybe that's the problem? Maybe those who don't know how to bill correctly............

I trust you understand the significance/value of getting them to explain in detail "how to use NAGS correctly" would be? If you haven't yet, do so.

Unfortunately, it wouldn't surprise me a bit to find that the practice ceases now that it's been publicly posted, though I would love to have the documentation of what you described if you can provide it from court transcripts. Good Grief, talk about a Mastercard Moment!

JMHNLO

they don't

Mark, send me your email address and I'll send you some examples.

Send message i can forward and see if we can get it touch directly. there are many independents that are working behind the radar and staying anonymous for various reasons. That is all In can say at this time.

Any true independent shops can use this important info to help the industry. All reply's will be completely confirmed before any info is sent to protect the independent network. enuff said.

Hmmmmm... let me guess. It is a software you use to bill directly?

Software has absolutely nothing to do with direct billing or collecting short pays. If your invoice shows all charges that is all you need. If you are referring to e direct nope don't need it. And the Colorado shop I will be in touch when I have a little time! thank you.

Smiley, e mail me at this address so I can talk with you directly please, and thank you