If companies tell our customers that they'll have to pay a difference and they won't have a warranty even though they know that isn't true are they covered by the constitution?

what they are saying is true.
a non network shop isn't covered by a warranty from the TPA or the insurance company. So lets say they get the glass done in Texas and move to North Carolina and it leaks. it will be covered in network warranty provided the shop was an approved shop.

If they glass company over bills (which is common now) the insured will be on the hook for the claim overcharge unless its a network approved shop.

I hope this answers your free speech question.

Free speech is a great thing, it's what allows you to speak here about what ever you want it also allows the other guy to say what things you don't like.
its a two way street.

Dude is DELIRIOUS! Those statements are so ridiculous, do you really believe your own dribble DUDE? Too funny....

More jibberish...the only reason a policyholder gets a "warranty" from their insurer is if the insurer invokes their right to contract for the repair or if they steer (recommend) the policyholder to a specific provider such as Safelite. The insurer becomes liable for the work done. That is evidence of steering.

Safelites Network Participation Agreement forces network participants to get their own liability insurance and to indemnify Safelite against liability for work done by the participant.

Any non-network shop can provide a nationwide warranty. If a customer has work done in Texas but then moves to North Carolina, all the Texas shop has to do is call a North Carolina service provider and arrange for the warranty work.

Safelite's Network Participation Agreement forces network participants to agree to pay for warranty work and let Safelite determine who gets to do the warranty work. Any guess who might get to do the warranty work?

The only reason independants participate in Safelites Network is to keep Safelite and their insurer clients from casting aspersions and damaging their reputations and at the expense of being forced to endorse the Safelite brand.

Safelite should not even be in the position to utter anything to an independants customer. Commercial free speech may be true and at the same time deceiving. As an example, one could say, "we don't know if Safelite employees perform their work according to industry guidelines" and that would be a true statement.

As long as a non-network shops invoice is reasonable, even if it is more than a network shop can charge, the insurance company has contractually agreed in good faith to pay the invoice in full. So, how could the policyholder owe anything out of pocket?

Dude, your response was a DUD.

Ok, I really need to get my head wrapped around this one, Dude.

You said: "a non network shop isn't covered by a warranty from the TPA or the insurance company. So lets say they get the glass done in Texas and move to North Carolina and it leaks. it will be covered in network warranty provided the shop was an approved shop."

My first questions are, I'd like to see a written copy of the insurance warranty, or frankly, the network warranty. I'd pay real cash for a copy of the written insurance warranty for the glass replacement done by any network shop. Further, in that the insurer didn't sell an HMO/PPO policy, how can they, or the network, guarantee or warrantee work they aren't contracting for in the first place, even with a network agreement in place? In fact they aren't, and since they aren't, how can any shop be "approved" or "dis-approved" in the first place?

Lastly on this one, is a NETWORK shop COVERED by a WARRANTY FROM THE TPA OR INSURANCE COMPANY? If so, really? REALLY? Or is it in fact true that they simply BACK BILL the original shop if anything may become an issue for the customer later on, while someone else "fixes" it? Did the insurer or network warranty or guarantee anything at all, or do they short a payment from the member shop's NEXT job, a payment for a DIFFERENT customer's insurance payment, claiming to "apply" that "deduction" to someone elses "warranty" claim?


You said: "If the glass company over bills (which is common now) the insured will be on the hook for the claim overcharge unless its a network approved shop."

My second questions are, What the he11 is "over-billing"? What is a "Claim Overcharge"? How can the insured be "on the hook for the claim overcharge unless its a network approved shop"? Can Network approved shops over-bill via Claim overcharges because they're approved? Since, I'm guessing, not, then it means that they agree to charge only the "approved rates" in the benefits of membership, and that's why the customer isn't on the hook for any claim overcharges or over-billings? Wouldn't that be fraudulent for shops to over-bill or to submit claim overcharges? Have there been such fraud cases in these "common now" over billing situations, or is it the shops that are winning in appraisals, arbitrations, and court cases?

So, since we're NOT selling an HMO/PPO, but delivering one, warrantying work that we didn't contract for, accusing shops of claim overcharges and overbillings and flat out telling the customer that they'll have to pay the difference when the policy isn't a "fixed dollar amount" or "stated loss" policy, but an indemnification policy, then the ONLY real thing contained in any of those statements is that "we've got a nationwide network of member shops for warranty work", right? The rest is ambiguous at best, and downright misleading to most, and, well, that's for the regulators to decide, which they did, what it is at worst.

So why is it that anyone is being allowed to SELL the consumer something that WASN'T and ISN'T in the policy, when they're trying to file a simple claim, and make it sound like it's something they've already purchased, something that's contained in the insurance contract, and something they MUST abide by, or they'll "have to pay a difference" due to "overbillings" and "claim overcharges" by some shops that recieve no "Benefits of Membership"?

If all of this is contained in "what they're saying is true" and that's the new definition of truth, then my "truths" above hold just as much water as theirs.

Of course, that's all JMHNLO.

I got home late and while making supper logged in here. YES WOW! Great thread, GREAT info here! I am too **** old to work this late, oh well I might be old but still I am a force to be reckoned with!

I too have to wrap my head around this. First off thank you Mark1, your post clarify's what the "dude" spewed. All BS! And brings clarity to the issues here. You saved me allot of time! Again thank you.

"FREE SPEECH" is a very important amendment to our constitution. It allows "ALL Citizens of the United States of America", to speak their mind. Does free speech mean you can say what every you want without any responsibility? NO IT DOES NOT. Is any entity LIABLE for what they say? AH--- YES. If you are in a court of law can you say whatever you want to the Judge without being in "CONTEMPT"? Can you spew vulgar, destructive, indecent, harmful or damaging wording to others? The answer here is pretty clear for those who have some sort of a brain! Sorry to those who have less than half a brain, my apologies to you.

SO, if any entity gives FALSE INFORMATION to any other entities in order to gain an advantage of, choice, financial gain, or to direct, in any shape or form to persuade, and influence, are they not "LIABLE" to the statements they make, regardless of the concept of "free speech"? AH again yes.

Anyway I have been a network shop, years ago, and NEVER does the network or ins co, warranty repairs, always the shop who performs repairs. Just like plumbers, contractors, mechanics, WHATEVER.

The scripting from networks are completely misleading and fraudulent.

Smiley, just today I had a certain tpa call AFTER my customer already came in. They did their usual script until pricing. It was classic. I stopped the csr and said: "I do not accept network pricing because I am not in the "benefits of membership" of your network, so I am NOT going to commit price fixing with you and discuss pricing. Nor do I submit to the pricing you are dictating. I will bill my normal bottom line pricing, I WILL take care of my customer, and by the way, they want and insist upon my shop, and for me to replace with exactly the W/S they have. It happens to be the OEM RAM head logo. Also my customer is obligated to pay his deductible, send your order, for what is is worth to my e mail, are we done yet? DONE DEAL.

So in conclusion, isn't it totally ironic how an overseas company is using an AMERICAN Constitutional amendment, and then using it against independent US shops. and the sad part WHY ARE WE LETTING THEM? So what can we do? A very good question. Does every State have a Dept of Commerce? Why is the IGA not on top of these issue's? I cannot answer that one, except, just maybe leadership. or lack there of!

I have just 1 more thought on our 1st amendment. WHY IS IT FIRST? There is a reason.

I firmly believe this, that our 1st amendment to the constitution was intended to PROTECT the innocent, and the rights of INDEPENDENT PEOPLE to speak against those who wish to "oppress" the voice of the smaller or little guy or independent entity.

Again how ironic is it that an overseas entity needs to cling to an amendment of our, not their, constitution. enuff said good night Irene good night

"did" a w/s the other day , slte dropped a w/s on his hood , omg should have seen it, cut him a check for 1400 ... if you capitulate you'll be happy for the warranty

Read the Minnesota Commerce Department's response to Safelite's free speech claim. Wow!!!!!
Thanks you to all the guys in Minnesota for exposing the illegal tactics being used by TPAs.