http://www.glassbytes.com/2015/04/would-an-agrr-company-sue-an-individual-over-an-alleged-short-pay/

it appears the magazine is just now becoming aware of short pays, a little late isn't it?

I love how Jenna calls them "alleged " short pays. If the full invoice isn't paid in full there is an amount due, thus a short pay. If you put lipstick on a pig it's still a pig.
I collect my short pays and have for years. If they were alleged how could I ever do that?

Short pay:

2000: http://www.usglassmag.com/AGRR/Backissues/2000/0003/thelaw.htm

2006: http://www.glassbytes.com/newsfarmersorderedtopay20061003.php

2012: http://www.glassbytes.com/newsArbitration20120906.htm

2010:
http://www.usglassmag.com/AGRR/Backissues/2010/MarchApril2010/insuarnceTalk.htm

Alleged: Accused of having done something wrong or illegal but not yet proven guilty.

Said to have happened but not yet proven.

Not all short pays are proven in court or arbitration.

Hmmmm ...

Took less than two minutes to find this stuff. Hmmm ...

How many arbitrations or court cases have you won or lost? Or have you done any? Do you know how many I've done? How many I've lost? Hmmmmm.

AGRR magazine has been fully aware of short pays from networks on behalf of insurers for many years. The "proof" is there, Thank you "things that make you go hmmm". All your investigative, few minute skills are noted, but all that is old business, and verifiable. There are so many more not being reported it is astounding!

ALLEGED short pays. NOW THAT IS LUDICROUSNESS! lol There is no alleged it is either paid in full or it is not paid in full. It is either the sun is shining or it is NOT, no way is it alleged. IT IS OR ISN'T. No gray area here.

There is only 1 way to combat short pays and that is to FIGHT. Check your state statues, contact your Dept of commerce, file complaints if you have to, small claims or arbitration, add your filing fees, late fees, and expenses and defend your rights. It can be a bit intimidating to getting started but it gets better as you go.

When networks set pricing it is price fixing, and it has nothing to do with "fair or reasonable".

FACT: after 4 years and multiple arbitration's a non named insurer just paid my invoice in full, but contrary to state statues purposely sent the check to the insured, a very good customer, only to further hassle the insured to send us the check. Maybe we have to file a complaint against them so they don't pull that crud again.

Persistence pays off. Short pays are happening all the time and the bigger picture is the impact it has on state sales tax. Once you get the attention of the state dept of revenue you will get results. It is amazing no one, IGA, Chuck, NO ONE has found the right path yet! They better find it soon before lobby $$$$$$$$$$$ stops free trade. Then GAME OVER........

Exactly. This is black and white. Unless you're an insurance company or a tpa (allegedly)

By the way hmmmm....... Next time you pay your auto insurance premium send in half the amount and tell your insurance company the price you sent is fair and reasonable. Let me know what they say about your "alleged " short pay..

Smiley, don't know what state you are in But I have not lost 1 arbitration EVER! and going on 20 plus have only had to show up 3 times as most settle before hand because my price is WAY "fair and reasonable". Once i get through the next batch I will have to raise the bar a bit to cover my time a bit more. It gets better with each one. It is almost becoming enjoyable. Keep up the GOOD fight!

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

May I suuggest that you take it one step further? The following link is for model legislation passed by most states:

http://www.naic.org/store/free/MDL-900.pdf

After winning several cases against the same insurance company, contact your state insurance commissioner and provide him/her with the evidence that the insurance company is in violation of prohibited unfair claims settlement practices.

You're preaching to the choir :)

Smiley, I am an auto Glass Appraiser in Florida. Do you mind me asking what state you are in? Just curious what states are using arbitration. I am guessing MN. right? Thank you in advance.

If you are indeed suggesting that folks call and voice support of the NAIC doc you posted for a model unfair claims practices act, you should read it first.

Saying that most states passed it is true to a point, many did 60+ years ago; it's the boiler plate version from way back when with TWO significant changes that are NOT good.

One, it flat out codifies steering, in a paragraph that makes a fuzzy-feel-good comment about insurers having to ensure that shops they require the consumer to use do work in a "workmanlike" manner.

In the original versions NAIC discussed, the word was "skillful" manner. It was removed and changed to "workmanlike", which means NOTHING. At LEAST "skillful" had a reference to "skill" at some level, but "workmanlike" means absolutely nothing.

The point is, it is intended to draw attention away from the fact that an insurer could legally REQUIRE an insured to use a particular shop, and the reference to "ensuring the repairs are done in a workmanlike manner" sidetracks the reader from that fact by effectively putting lipstick on a pig.

Second, this model act quite effectively wipes out 60 years of ADDITIONS any state has made to its unfair claims practices acts, which would include ALL OF THE ANTI STEERING LANGUAGE contained in some 37 (appx) state laws. How handy is that?

Further, this act was not new language except for the last paragraph noted above, and it was written for a time when honor and dignity and morality, effectively, the honor system, still worked in this country. That time is long past. Corporations use any and every trick in the book they can. Insurance is a direct conflict of interest at its very conception and inception: They make money by taking in as much as possible in premiums, and by paying out as little as possible in claims. That's a simple fact.

The NAIC model act is as useless as a toilet paper umbrella in a hurricane, and the authors darned well knew it when they wrote it. Not that any Insurance Commishiners are ex-long term insurance employees, or such.

JMHNLO

Man, you just can't make this ,,,,,, stuff up! Thanks Mark1. Perfect perception. And posted very well.

Mark1, I used the boiler plate version because almost every state has its on modifications. Minnesotas version is fantastic.

I disagree with your interpretation of the law. If state law says the consumer can freely choose which repair facility is to work on his/her vehicle, then nothing in the insurance policy can countermand that.

When insurers settle claims in a manner so as to repeatedly require litigation for the same thing over and over again, that is a violation of the unfair claims settlement practices law. Usually several claims against an insurance conmpany are litigated at the same time. Each time a plaintiff wins, the insurance commissioner should be notified and asked to issue a cease and desist order to the insurer.

It seems to me that may be exactly what happened in Minnesota. If the insurers start getting fined for using biased TPA's, maybe the will quit.

had to post here also Real good topic here. I have more than once called my stated Dept of Revenue and ask about this. FLAT OUT the shops IS responsible for tax on the materials. Mn does Not tax labor for repairs to vehicles. It used to be all labor was not taxable but some of the state laws have changed a bit. BUT NOT TAX ON MATERIALS for auto glass.

Harmon a few years ago was hand slapped and told to cease and desist. They did. Alliance Solutions AKA SGC, still sends worthless work orders out that state "WE MUST NOT INCLUDE SALES TAX AND THIS IS A SALE FOR RE-SALE". WRONG. the shops are and will liable for all sales tax on the materials on the itemized invoice.

Fortunately for me I ignore alliance work orders because my state dept of rev has told me it is not valid. Plus as I am not a network slave I already know what it is worth.

I haven't chatted with my State Dept of rev for awhile, so I must be overdue in making a few more contacts.

As far as short pays go, the state says we are responsible for what we bill. So when any network or INS CO short pays, they have to itemize just as we do, exactly what they are doing. When they alter the materials and tax, the state has told me directly "that is fraud, they can not do that".

I know some shops here pay sales tax based on what they get paid, then when they re- coup losses in Arbitration they amend and send in the difference for the sales tax. I would think so long as you keep your records perfect all ok, so long as you pay the tax as you collect it, but I know the state prefers the shop to pay tax on what is billed out. YUP HOW CONVENIENT FOR THEM. As long as they get there's it is your problem. hmmm I just don't want the booking nightmare in bookkeeping so I pay my sale tax based on what I charge. It has worked very well and simple. But only because I have not failed to collect on short pays. MANY,short pays, and lately even I am getting supplement payments before arbitration filing which makes good sense, because it saves the INS CO allot of money. Just got 1 today,, thank you.

Smiley, the amount of lost sales tax since the last re-balance is astronomical. I have not seen my short pays in half of what I charge, because I charge a very fair and reasonable amount. The average short is in a certain range, and in being very careful and respectful to this forum I will not post that number. But it is very interesting just how consistent the short pays from certain tpa's and certain Ins co's really are.

Lastly the closer states look at this a very interesting thing happens. They are very interested at first, but as a little time goes on and we dig a bit deeper, it suddenly, and sometimes quickly, gets swept under the rug.Hmmm From there 1 needs to form their own conclusion. A couple scenarios come to mind, But they make me scratch my head and go WHAT?

Don't be intimidated to chat with your state dept of rev to what they think about this stuff, it might surprise you, and just maybe inspire you.........JMHNLO as a good friend of mine has told me many times "connect the dots"...FOOD FOR THOUGHT!

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