Hi all,

I'm a vehicle owner looking for professional opinions regarding service practice. I'd appreciate your comments.

I went to a local shop to have a broken out side window replaced. I went to Yelp and chose a local shop with good reviews. The shop had many five star reviews that spoke highly of their quality and service.

I brought it in and waited, so I was able to observe the work. The service technician started off by carefully peeling off along the edge, but when he got to the door handle, he just slit open a gaping hole in the water shield to avoid having to remove the door handle. The glass was replaced and he puts the door panel back on with the huge slits still in place. When I questioned him about this, he said that "it doesn't hurt anything". Auto manufacturers are very cost conscious, so they are not going to install something without a purpose in places not visible. I went back to the desk and talked to reception. They gave me an excuse that they have to cut to get to tight places because a car's not meant to have its windows broken and that it is the way the factory told them to do it. The owner over heard the discussion and she just tells me "the guys been doing it for many years" therefore they must be right and tells me to bring it back if there's problems. Water getting into the side inner side of water shield likely won't show symptoms for quite some time.

This was a cash, per job quote, however I did notice something on the invoice. "labor 1.8 hours". But, the actual time it took the tech was under an hour, including interior vacuuming, so I believe there was significant corner cutting.

So, I would like inputs from professionals. A car is brought in with a side window that's busted out and the door has never been opened up before. Water shield is in perfect conditions. Is it considered acceptable industry practice to just slit it open to avoid having to disengage the door handle? I don't think it is, but she just plays the we're pros, you're just a consumer card.

They were also telling every customer picking up their car that they will hear rattling from bits of old glass for a while and not to worry because, "the bits of glass will wash out the water weep holes over time".

The shop had quite a bit of vehicles and many customers came to pick-up their car while I was waiting. There was only one other guy waiting in the waiting area and he was occupied with his own things and didn't even glance over to the work getting done. Since people often leave reviews soon after they receive a service, I can totally see how butchering up water shield will go unnoticed.

Hey Car Driver,

Some water shields can be tricky to remove without damage or a little tearing to get around the adhesive used to hold them on. I would say at the very least they could have put some kind of tape over the tears on the water shield. Especially after you pointed it out. To be honest I wouldn't worry to much about this.

As for the glass chips and noise, its tough to get ALL the chips out. while some may settle in the crevices they would have to be pretty small to "wash out the weep holes".
So you will hear them for a while. If it bother you take it back to them for a re-vacuum in a week. At that point ask them to put some tape over the tears.

As far as the hour thing, my mechanic puts down the amount of hours it takes to do a job but he only charges me what we agreed to. My guess is your labor portion was between 40-70 dollars. That would be reasonable.
JMHO

Hi,
Thanks for the response. They're not little tears. He took a utility knife and made huge incisions to get behind it.

Here's what I mean. The tar thing holds it all the way along the edge. He carefully lifted off a section of it, I drew that portion in blue. The question is about the huge incisions he made with a knife, which I drew out approximately in red lines to avoid having to undo the door handle.
http://i.imgur.com/v4heeKG.png

I wouldn't have cut it if I was doing it myself(but I did not have time) and if I knew they were going to do it this way, I wouldn't have taken it in, although I do not know if the prevailing industry practice considers this "acceptable workmanship".

The factory service manual instructs undoing the indoor handle as well.

It's the fact that they're giving explanations like they "wash out" to every customer like we're stupid that makes me question them. If I'm already quoted an agreed upon amount, there's every bit of financial incentive for a shop to cut corners as much as they can get away with it...

Yelp is a Pile of crap as you are now finding out. Also if you seen the tech do this why not take this up with them instead of coming here. I am calling Troll/Catfish on this one.

I can crap in a box and mark it Guaranteed I have spare time!!!

Purposely cutting the water shield to me is a hack move. I try to detach as much as I need from the outer perimeter, using a scraper if necessary. If it tears, especially if old or previously removed, I will use tape to make a serious attempt to seal it up.
The removal of glass shards inside the door have become a major time and physical issue with new door designs. There are more makes and models that have a very narrow but deep bottom areas that make vacuuming very difficult and time consuming. I can have access to air with some new Acura and Ford designs and I still need 30-60 min to remove practically all of the shards. That is with several vacuuming and blowing cycles. I hear from several customers that other shops may take less than 10 to 15 min cleaning the whole car with a tea kettle sized vacuum. One wonders what materials those places used to dampen the sound of loose shards because there is no way they got them all or most.

I have over 100 5 star yelp reviews and I love it. It's helped me survive the economic recession and the steering. However I see reviews from customers that used real hack shops and the customer is clueless. "I drove in and out for a windshield install in less than a 30 min". "I paid $$ for a windshield and every one else was twice that. I got a real deal." Reviews are nice but almost all are coming from people that are technically ignorant of the glass installation process. Some shop can use butyl to install a 2014 windshield and the customer is happy they can drive away immediately

CarDriver, it is one thing for you to come to this forum to ask a question, but you are coming across like our industry somehow needs to justify its existence to you and be put on the defensive. And who the hell are you?

Please be advised that this forum is not intended for a$$holes who are not in the trade, it is only intended for a$$holes who are in the trade!

In our area we call it a dust shield because of dirt roads it keeps the dust out of the vehicle. At least 1 person here is mature enough to give some intelligent answers. Thank Mr. positive!

I always try to peal it back carefully, and where you can't peel it off cut in such a way so you can use clear packing tape, the STRONG stuff to seal it back up. The important part is to seal it to keep dirt out. Best fix or repair is to remove panel and seal up the dust shield. HTH's

Car driver there are a few good people out here but many are angry, immature, a h o l e s That only care about themselves not the industry. They may have been a slave for too long or just plain too arrogant.

A hack move is to use White Grease and shake the absolute crap out of the door. I personally go above and beyond to get ever piece of glass out of the car, However I have used air on a car to blow out the glass for over 1 hour, and still a few good slams reveals more glass. With that being said, some glass is going to attach to grease that is put in the door or back glass from the factory for the regulator and etc.. over time it is going to let loose... When we use to do Chrysler Warranty work for the train rail haulers, it had to be perfect, and that was back 15 years ago when you could easily get inside a door... I have heard of people rinsing out the inside of the door with water.. I personally have never tried this and it seems to be a very extreme solution to remove the last few remaining pieces.

This is why I dislike customers watching the work being done. You've got someone oblivious to the work being done on top of someone thinking they know what they're talking about trying to correct you the tech, just sitting there nit picking... I've had customers arguing with me calling their dealer about my glass not having the setting tabs on the replacement glass. Causing more trouble than the job is worth. Go nit pick in a restaurant about your food...let me know how your stomach feels when you get home.

Most of the time the sound barrier is dried out and brittle, but just cutting out the inside door handle area isn't that bad, some of those interior door handles can be tricky or if you bend a rod then that will put a bind in the handle. Or if you break the CHEAP plastic cable insert area then what, Your buying new handles.. Now if your barrier is good and you should be able to remove the sound and moisture barrier from the bottom and fold it up out of the way to access the larger holes to work thru. As for the getting all the glass out well sometimes that will take an act of god, like a 2010 HHR ( good LUCK with that) I use a stainless steel 1/8 tig wire bent on and angle at the end and try to move as much glass to the back side of door where the vac hose can get the most glass out. A few shakes of the door and a couple door shuts wolla there is more glass to clean..

Thank you Mr.Positive and repairguy. I went back to the shop and got the shop owner to reluctantly agree to correct the hidden damage from corner cutting.

She insisted that most people don't care about their water shield, but it was obvious that most owners of vehicle they work on don't know what happens to where the sun don't shine. Given the number of cars waiting to go in(cars sitting in the lot with visibly damaged glass) and absence of other customers waiting in the lobby, most of them drop off with a broken glass and come back to a new glass.

We peel the "watershield" back and generally fold it up to the door handle and tape it down. That way we can work inside the door.

Newer car doors are a real pain to get all the glass out. I got some flexable 5/8 tubing and made a crevice tool out of it. It helps, but sometimes there is still glass left behind. Blow it with air, then vaacuum, then do it again. A long, thin, flexible rod (old whip antenna will work) makes a great tool to move glass out of channels and into vac range.

We always explain this to the customer and if they are waiting we show them.

A can of spray adhesive or a roll of thin butyl gets the "watershield" back in place. I've been tempted to spray adhesive into the door to cement the glass I can't get into place. Haven't done it since I have the kind of luck that guarantees clogging the drain holes.

Hope that helps.

Back when.. there was a paper shield with water proofing on one side. The inner panels were card board or paper composites so it was imperative the water didn't saturate them because they would disintegrate. when they started making the panels out of plastic the shield wasn't really important anymore. then they started putting a thick fabric pad behind the panel to deaden sound, now the shield was important again. most fabric pads are gone now & panels are plastic but some doors will let water into the car without any shield. it's important to put shield back, if you take up the cuts you made to get it off I believe it's a NON-ISSUE