I installed this back on September 18th. Customer called me this morning with some eye opening news. Guess he is having electrical issues, He took it to the Toyota Dealer, He gave me tech terms, (multiple DCS, Coroded Junction etc) Bottom line is the Dealer states they found a Leak in the aftermarket windshield in the upper right corner so Toyota is not paying the damages which are 6 GRAND. Customer said they was unaware of any leaks... Then he asked me if I had insurance for this!!! I told My customer It WILL be taken care of if found to be the fault of my company. I have to go look at the Vehicle today and I am going to test it for the leak Toyota claims to be there.

Now the 6 grand is no big deal, I am insured however, I have been doing this for 23 years and never had an issue like this, Owned my business for 6.5 and NEVER a problem like this.

My initial thought is, Leak in Upper right, and Where is this Junction Box? I would think the electrical box would be on the left (Like the 96 F-150's) that had similar problems.


My questions are, Has anyone had an issue or no of an issues with a FW 3240 2011 Toyota Sienna. And, It would be very simple to call my agent, Make a claim, pay my deductible and call My customer with an apology and tell him to get it fixed However, I really want to get to the bottom of this, Obviously I will be installing a new Windshield before the repairs.
Any advise is appreciated!! (I will give an update on my findings)

The Dealer and the customer should allow you to prove that the windshield is or is not leaking. Why should you be liable IF it is not of your doing.
Prove it is not the Windshield! If it is, it is.
Obviously check the usual culprits:
Roof Racks and their rivets or attachment pieces
If needed remove the entire headliner and check for water trails
Sunroof and stopped up drain tubes.
Any external roof antennae
Roof trim
Drip rail
Weld joints
Door jamb weatherstrips
Remove A-Pillar cover and check for water trails and trace back.
When testing for the leak and if it appears to be coming from the windshield look closer and make sure the water is not coming in between the overlapping metal in the corner, that would suggest a leak further back.

Just because it looks like it is coming from the upper corner does not mean it is the windshield.

Use a leak detector to zero in on the location
Last resort is to Remove the w/s and see if there are water trails.

Just a few thoughts on what I would do.

Yes demand the opportunity to diagnose the problem. Dealers ALWAYS blame the problem on a replaced w/s. Wouldn't a leak from the top corner drip down & hit seat or floor instead of being invisible & traveling under the dash to hit a box. I would be very interested in the outcome.

One more thought.
What happens if you do not get the opportunity to prove that it is not the windshield leaking and they have someone else put it in, or, they demand you just replace it; you wind up back to where you are now, with a leak. Then who will be liable.
This is a big deal!

Most dealers always passing the buck. I would want to find out where and why its leaking. Your reputation is on the line. I would do everything to check it. Water,air,foam,ultrasonic and remove windshield if no avail in front of their shop foreman and examine the seals on glass and pinchweld.

I would also document everything with pictures as you go as much as pics can show.

Yes, ultrasonic and mechanically test for leaks.

If you end up pulling the glass, that's where the pics will come in. If there's a gap in the bead, it should show up, and so should a water trail.
Documenting it if it was indeed the glass leaking is just as good for you as documenting that it wasn't, reputation-wise, especially when your're standing there ready and willing to make it right.

Finally, if you can show that it wasn't anything to do with the glass, I'd send the dealer a bill for all your time and effort proving it wasn't your product or services causing a problem, even if you don't find the problem, unless they're one he11 of a good customer also.

We had one some time back that the dealer told the customer it was water leaking down to the fuse box from a leaking WS causing corrosion there, and sent it to us for repair, even though it wasn't one of our installations, but the "other guy's" installation.

The windshield wasn't leaking, the fuse box supposedly the culprit not only had enough dust on it to physically see there was no water trails, there obviously wasn't any signs of corrosion.

In five minutes, we had the problem(s) located. Rear trailer hitch plug in had wires shorting out, and so did the rear license plate light coupler. Both had wires ripped loose.

We were to replace the glass properly, and then they were going to install him a new wiring harness and fuse box, with a considerable bill, of course.

Customer was happy with us, I assume the "other guys" were as well, not so much the dealer.

Honesty always is the best policy, though.

JMHNLO

These are all great suggestions. I would suggest starting with these in order:
If there is a sunroof, open it completely. Check perimeter runoff channel for dirt, mud etc. Then with roof open, pour water into channel to see if water drains out from under fenders. If not, and water stands show your customer and offer to correct by clearing drains with compressed air and warm detergent water for a service charge. If sunroof seems to drain correctly, I would proceed with the following.
#1 gently push against glass to see if there is any movement.
#2 make sure cowl panel is installed correctly and any water baffles that channel water away from fresh air intake haven't come loose and the cowl drains are not plugged.
#3 Make sure vehicle is dry for control,Pull interior a pillar moldings and with a hose on a slow flow and a spotter preferably the vehicle owner start under windshield along firewall and cowl (be careful not to soak under hood electronic components) spend a couple minutes then move up to windshield slowly from bottom to top. Control flow so that water stays in windshield channel and out of roof seams. If after 15 to 20 minutes there is no evidence of water, you can be reasonably confident that the windshield is not leaking. Show your customer and explain your procedure. Then move onto roof rail seams etc. till leak is discovered. If leak shows up in upper corner of w/s after testing rail seams, see if water develops between overlap of metal in seams.

I agree, just because the dealership says it is the windshield doesn't mean anything. Get to the root of the problem yourself, this is your reputation. If you discover you are at fault, take your medicine and write it off as a learning experience.

Good luck

We have a body shop customer who will throw us under the bus if his customer complains about anything at all. Here is what has evolved from our experience. So far there has been no instance of a faulty windshield (knock on wood) but we have not made nearly enough money on the time spent debunking the accusation.

If a water leak we start with a general inspection for water trails. Moldings, cowl, headliner, etc are all displaced or removed.

For noise we leave moldings in place and go straight to road test with a stethoscope all the way around the glass. And we will tape down any moldings that we suspect of vibrating.

Next is the ultrasonic checker. We assume that nothing will be found.

Then we offer to pull the glass, using a wire out tool in order to try and save it. (Since I'm the only employee with the tool, guess who gets to do that). The important thing, in the bosses mind, is that the entire investigation is conducted in the physical presence of that body shop owner and his customer if possible.

We do charge for the time (labor) if there is no definitive proof the glass was installed wrong. So far, knock on wood, we've been in spec each time. Usually we found a seam in the body outside of the urethane line that was the culprit.

I hope you get resolved in your favor. Good Luck Dude.

I have had this problem as well and got cussed out by some jackass on a new dodge truck where the factory missed about 8 inches of seam sealer on the cowl where it was welded together. I have been using baby powder around the perimeter of the glass and high pressure from the inside to check my work and it seems to work very good and on other body seams as well and no moister involved so easy to seal a seam after detection...and I agree as far as body shops and dealerships trying to pass the problem to the glass shop but usually when you show them the problem you can get paid for your time depending on the shop..good luck and if you messed up admit it you are human and that will go a long way with a reputable dealer

just curious, what kind of adhesive are you using? (brand)

Thank you all for the advise. I could not get a hold of my insurance company today so I did not look at the Vehicle today. I want to involve my agent be for I go any further. I will try to look at the vehicle on Tuesday at a local body shop (For witnesses). I have a stellar record as far as leakers. Not saying I Never have one but very rare. I use Sika products and SIKA Cool was used on this job.

Maybe time to stop using the old round bead!

Ryun
Out of everything you read where do you see that it says Sir Slam A Lot used a round bead.The hole point of this was for helpful ideas.
Key word helpful.

I had this same thing happen to me years ago only it was 1 grand not 6. You said the job was done 5 months ago and your customer was unaware of any leak. Go to the dealer and ask to see the damaged part. Get specifics on how the leak was fixed. I can almost guarantee you it was not the windshield.

My situation involved a direct referral from my largest agent so I had to pay. Plus, the dealer would not release the vehicle until it was paid. Weather you have insurance or not, this is a lot of money to pay for something that someone else says you are liable for not to mention that you had no chance to verify anything before the dealer destroyed any and all evidence.

Might want to check car fax to see if it has ever been in a collision before you start. I was blamed once for a leak a couple of years after the install and it turned out to be the hood release cable that had been recently replaced.

Yes Sir, There is one in every crowd!!! , I say many many times, Even the best installer in the World will have a re-do every once in a while, I have worked with many installers that rolled their eyes and could of cared less when they had a re-do, I take a re-do personally , If it is a leak, I want to know what and why it happened and fix it the right way. The word REPUTATION was used more than once in the comments, and that is Everything to me, I worked very hard for my reputation. My Wife told me last night... "Why are you letting this bother you so much?" Also, The Vehicle is no longer at the Dealer, The customer has it and I will be troubleshooting it soon using a lot of the advise from this thread.

I have written about this before, but here goes again.
Make sure that the windshield in question, was actually the one that YOU installed.
You do record Brand, date code and DOT # on the shield you actually installed??
Many a time have I seen, that a car repair facility (gas station, dealer, oil change guy, tire guy etc.), broke the windshield and had someone replace it, without the owners knowledge.
I have also observed water running down a wire through the fire wall, for a Sirius antenna, electric wire for a remote start and on and on.
Did someone replace the cabin air filter and screw up the cowl? Jiffy Lube loves to do that.
Most important though, is when a dealer gets a shot at writing in the amount on a blank check, watch out. If at all possible, like many have written on this thread, get the vehicle and check it out.
Ooops...

Very good point. All the more reason to always follow agrss/agsc standards and record this data on every single job. Once it becomes habit, you do it without thinking about it. I do all my record keeping while my primers are flashing off. Usually takes me approx. 6 minutes to record all data including vin, mil,etc. 99.999% of the time this form gets filed away never to be seen again. In a case like this one, you will be glad you have it.

Here's one for you.
I spoke to a customer last week and they did a replacement on a BMW a year and a half ago, right after Hurricane Sandy. The customer went back to the BMW Dealer a week or so ago, after what (?), 16 ice and snow events this year alone, with a burnt out and damaged windshield wiper motor/linkage assembly. They blamed the windshield guy and also claimed they damaged the molding and dented the roof.
"Ca-ching, Ca-ching", but alas, the windshield guy documented on the invoice that a tree had fallen on the vehicle in hurricane Sandy, dented the roof and damaged the molding. The "nice and honest" car owner "forgot" that she signed off on the damage, Case Closed. But, not for nothing, a dealer saying that the windshield replacement caused the windshield wiper motor to burn out and cause damage to the linkage assembly, is pure BS.
Many times the car owner is as dishonest, (or more dishonest) than the dealer.
Ooops...

just did a google search on this model van all kinds of water leaks''

Bet your glad you documented that one. It's unreal what lengths people will go to for a free meal. It's difficult not to be cynical but it's true. There will always be dishonest people out there that are looking to swindle someone. I'm an optimist and like to believe that most people out there are descent and honest. The ones that are don't mind taking a moment to do a pre inspection. They get it, and you can usually tell who you have to be careful with.
I had a customer recently that wasn't able to be present when I arrived to begin work. An older 97 4 runner that had previously been replaced FW2011, no evidence of inappropriate conditions before beginning, but took photos to document scenario anyhow. After peeling out molding, but before cutting out glass the rust was exposed. I immediately stopped to phone the customer and inform him of the status that I was not able to proceed that it needed to go to a body shop. I probably could have removed the corrosion sufficiently and proceeded with the install but I'm not a body shop. I have many reputable shops to refer this kind of work to. We don't provide this service but only in certain circumstances as we don't get paid to. Well most people would have accepted what I tried to explain, but this guy wasn't going to have it that way. He insisted that I replace his windshield right then or he was going to sue me because I pulled his molding out. He even went as far as to say he would sign a release. It was an insurance job, we immediately informed the agent of the conditions but not before he called them to complain. The insurance company understood our position and the vehicle was properly repaired at a later date at the owners expense, less the windshield covered by Ins. Those are the ones you have to beware of.
Most times it's a judgement call as to how detailed you need to be in a pre inspection. A car is a car, it's the customers that vary and sometimes we have to use a little psychology to read them and choose how to deal with them. A little time to look over a car and make notes goes a long way.

If their is a auto glass replacement technician out there that has ZERO installation issue's then he must be GOD. Because we are all human and we make mistakes. Just some more then others...........

I encountered the same problem on the same type of vehicle FW03240 GBY. Only the damage was in the lines of $12,000, dealer pricing of co****. I forget how long it was between the install and the origination of the problem but it was several months. When we got to examine the problem, here is what we found. With the w/s out of the van, just a little way up the pinchweld on both the drivers and passengers side there were horizontal grooves. It appeared as though it was were it may have been seamed together. When the new bead of urethane was applied, it never formed into these grooves so when water would travel down and against the urethane, it would hit this spot of the pinchweld and be diverted right down to the wire harnesses, junction boxes, computers etc. You name it, the dealer thought it needed to be replaced because it was compromised. Whether it was really our fault or not is questionable. In my opinion a bad design. Maybe it was installed on a cooler or downright cold day so the urethane was never able to form itself into the groove.

Hope this helps

Oooh, spooky scary! I'm xtra small and a glass master debater!
Ever notice that they're called "smart phones", not "smart operators"?

Sounds like you have a personal problem there troller!!!!

No updates yet, I got a call Sunday night from the Husband. The Wife drives the Van to sell maps to gas stations, He told me it was not safe to drive, Then tells me Sunday she took the Van and wont be back until Friday, I told him about posting this and the feed back I am getting... He says... "So your NOT going to stand behind your Work now??? I said, Bottom line if it is a leak and MY leak caused the damages it will be taken care of however, I am not going to just sit back and take a Dealers word for it, He agreed and even stated he is wondering if the Dealer is full of it now, He told me even the Windows will not go down on this vehicle. Stay Tuned!!!

I would call my insurance agent and tell them that you don't want them to pay for this and waist their money until you're sure is the glass. you're insurance agent will back you up 100 percent on it.

Last night I did a carfax on this vehicle just to see if had any record, (Not a fan of carfax, I believe to be a waste of money) but at least I did find out this is a one owner vehicle. I also found one of them Toyota pay for answer sites, I wanted to know where the Junction box is, So I paid for the session, Yea, kinda dumb but I just wanted answers, I also bought that ultra sonic leak detector from Equalizer, And one of the Milwaukee M-Spector multimedia camera kits, (Camera with the snake attachment that can record and take pictures).

The Ultra sonic leak detector did not show a leak. so I was all smiles right!!! I pulled the A Pillar molding off pulled the visor and I could see where a very small void was in the seal, I even put the transmitter in the headliner right next to the void and with the receiver on high, I got no signal. Again.. ALL SMILES. Until I put some soapy water near that area and hit it was high pressure air. Yes, I got the Bubbles I was NOT wanting to see. (so I guess the Ultra sonic leak detector I paid 100 bucks for was a complete wast of money)

Yes, it does have a very small leak in the upper right.

I told the customer, In my professional opinion... Yes there is an obvious leak and it is My fault and I feel bad about it... However, I do not believe this small leak could of been the cause of the damages to the junction box on the Left side of the vehicle. BTW, the Toyota expert thought 6 grand was and I quote.. "Ridiculous". I wanted to give the customer a simple scenario, I told him (and this is pretty lame)... But it would be like having your oil changed, then 5 months later the rear end goes out on your vehicle, The Dealer says... Oh we found the oil filter was a tad loose so it's their fault!!! Okay I'm reaching but you get the idea, Bottom line I just spoke to my Agent and I am dropping off the Dealers findings and estimate. Which was....

156754 Windshield leak found Multiple DTCS in Main Body ECU. Along with stopped communication to Master Window. Further inspection found connector HD1 is all corroded along with various other connectors around Junction block. Found right upper corner of Windshield has leak.


Needs Dash Harness, Engine Harness and Drivers door Harness $6,190.98
PLUS, needs Windshield resealed do to water leaking causing corrosion on in wiring harness and connectors.

It was my intention to gut the interior and find where the real problem is but the customer could not leave the vehicle Then and I decided this sounds like a job for the insurance team to handle. I really hope they do this and actually find the real problem if any. Thank you all again for your input and stay tuned!!!

If you are in a 4 hour drive of Washington DC give me a call on this. If not you can still call me on this one.

Sorry Jamie, I am in N W Wisconsin. I just left it in the hands of my insurance. Turns out I don't even have a deductible. I just hope they get to the bottom of it versus just writing a check.

It takes a real man to owe up to a mistake. You found the leak. Now you move on. More then what I can saw about other companies that admit nothing and just write a check.

DOES THE CAR HAVE A SUN ROOF OPEN THE SUNROOF. CALL ME PHIL 1516 771 0012 AND I'LL TELL YOU HOW TO FIX IT. I'M VERY GOOD AT LEAKS

We have seen this leak from the factory. This is all we do, is fix leaks. I look at this exact same situation last summer, I was called in by the windshield guy who put in an a/m w/shield two months earlier, car was towed in fuse block fried. It was 100% the windshield, I felt bad, glass guy said sorry paid the bill actually discounted to $4,500.00. He is still doing work for that dealer group. It was said earlier you have to be a man and own up to your mistakes...No one is perfect. In this case the top corner of the bead "folded" over just a bit and the water ran down the "A" pillar, built up in the bottom of the windshield and spilled in.

Any questions you guys can e mail me or call me. www.leakpro.com

Well, when you "slam" them in by yourself, especially those mini van sized windshields, what do you expect is going to happen?

Ever heard of the Lil Buddy or Rollerdeck or even a 1Tech? They are setting tools to assist a tech for such situations. Class over......

1-Tech works great. dodge mini's, Honda pilot, oddsy etc..no stuffing here. Cant buy it on the open market but i would get the lil buddy if on my own .

This is actually one of the easiest windshields for me to replace. Urethane cuts easy, cowl and wipers come off and on with ease. I do everything by the book and this job still only takes me no more than 40 to 45 minutes including prep and all paperwork. Although all modern vehicles bonded with urethane require a specific volume of urethane be applied to ensure the integrity of the engineering from the factory has been restored. These types of applications in particular require precision bead placement and decking to avoid unsightly squeeze in or rolling out between the molding and the body, thus causing a leak like this one. I do these all the time, never have a problem because my setting system allows me to easily precisely place the windshield in the exact location by calibrating the system to the original factory installation. I never worry if the bead rolled. You can't see through the frit, you want to be confident that bead didn't roll! $4500.00 goes a long way towards the purchase of professional equipment!

Dow urethane applied to the glass after proper prep, two skilled installers setting the glass with suction cups, problem solved (or avoided)

E-Bay is open market... You can buy almost anything and everything there !!!! Where price is no object for the rite bidder.....

I'm not sure where I read it, but I did read somewhere that Belron monitors eBay for sales of its proprietary equipment. If it can be established that the buyer was aware or should have been aware that the tool was "stolen" there could be a legal issue. At the time I read it I think I was scanning for a wire tool.

Phil,

I've seen almost everything Slavelite considers proprietary equipment on sale on E-Bay. From Razhead repairs kits to 1Techs and everything in between. It had a similar question in a razhead repair kit. The original E-bay seller stated that it was bought thru a storage unit auction. Purchases thru E-Bay has buyer protection. So they wont come after you. They will going after the seller. We personally don't buy Slavelite proprietary equipment. My opinion is that its not what its hyped up to be.

Had a similar problem two months ago with a minor leaker, different model, but still new enough for car to be worth more than the five grand to replace wiring harness.

Its two issues:
1) the pin connections are not shielded from any water leaks, whether the sunroof, w/s, cowl or any source.
Water will just run into the connections! How stupid is that?

2) either the pins or the pin to wire connection is so thin and weak, any amount of water can quickly corrode the whole assembly, and the dealer response is to rewire the entire car.

True story from a glass shop with twenty + year vets that are prohibited from stuffing and grind and prep any rust and rarely have leakers.

Watch out for the late model Toyotas!

Got a call from my insurance this week.... They cut them a check for 6,100 dollars!! I was a tad surprised they did not even get a 2nd opinion, I have a zero deductible but I am still beating myself up over this whole thing, I guess the last thing I wanted was an angry customer. They were very nice to me during this whole process, We both live in the same town of 700 people so I am at least happy they were taken care of. Time to put this behind me, Learn from my mistake and move on!!!

Were all human. Mistakes happen. At least its behind you now.
Semper fidelis my Brutha

How do you fit in here ??

Is that the question you asked yourself when you looked in the mirror before you posted on here ?????