I have been commenting on various subjects on this forum for the last year. You may know me as the "Rollerdeck Guy". That being said, I understand the rules of this forum and respect them. I'm not here to talk about my product in particular, rather than proper procedures in general. Most of us know how important it is to return a vehicle to it's original equipment condition when servicing. Proper placement is no less important than any other part of the process of replacing a bonded part in a vehicle. Thank you Safelite for your marketing campaign highlighting how the factory installs the windshield. You have brought this important subject to the surface through mainstream media. From those of us intent on following fmvss and agsc standards and setting the benchmark. You have done a great service to the industry.
That being said, as independent companies out there competing in today's market, you should try to learn from any sources available to you to stay ahead of the curve and remain competitive. Training should be at the top of your list of priorities. You should consult with your adhesive product rep's and schedule training sessions to keep your staff up to date on the most current handling procedures. Never assume procedures or trust what you may consider common sense, or suggestions from anyone regardless of their connections or influence in the industry other than your qualified product rep or trainer. If there should ever be a discrepancy that results in litigation, you will want to be sure you followed the rules and documented each procedure thoroughly. See link http://youtu.be/5HxR2-WjPvM

Whether you send 2 men on every install, or utilize a system designed to achieve the required placement is your choice. Doesn't matter which method you use. For the sake of public safety, please choose a setting method that achieves the desired results.

Well that's quite a slick ad. You should be in marketing.

How can you say this isn't promotion for your ridiculous product. You, sir, are a hack. I wouldn't let you near any car of mine.

A couple of observations....
You scrape dirt of the pinchweld with a a small metal screwdriver...paint damage probable.

You use a long knife...paint damage probable.

You fail to use cut resistant gloves when using your barbaric long knife.

You should clean that debris out with water BEFORE trimming the urethane.

No cut resistant gloves when lifting the glass.

Your tool will not relieve the physical pressures that you claim it does.

You are right, Safelite has educated the public. How does this little thing compare to their setting tools that are all over TV? I bet your customers are real impressed when you whip that little thing out and pretend that it is going to help you duplicate the precision obtained at the factory.

And....you DID contaminate the bonding surface...regardless of what you claim in the comments on your lame video.

Well Mr. Ke Untsmels i assume the e is silent? You sir are certainly entitled to your opinion. I expected to get some responses like yours. Doesn't matter really, the important thing is that awareness is created. We all have our own methods of how we choose to do the job. Just like the guy at the top of this page. Where's his gloves? What is important is that we educate ourselves and others of the importance of material handling procedures. Maybe you can be an advocate and publish video's showing how you do the job. Show us your methods for trimming urethane, avoiding paint damage etc. We can all learn something new if we choose to, isn't what this forum is supposed to be about?

BUT...

We have a guy that took a lot of time, money and devotion to create a product for use in his industry. That sir, will always demand a hat tip. I'd like to demo the device some day.
Your post was pushing the spam a bit, and your education of the industry is far misguided. Correct knowledge is just that. Start there to show your best growth.

THEN...

We have a complete Safelite drone. A name was called out, so he came to defend his paycheck with knowledge that is misguided as well. Little does he know how much of an utter failure the onetech is even with a pretty lighting and a new name.

Attention webmaster!!! If I crossed a line with this post, please delete it immediately. Some may consider it spam. It was not my intention to do so, but I realize that I initiated this thread and included content that could be considered advertising. For that I apologize. My intention was purely to create awareness about a common problem in our industry, not to build up one particular product or diminish another. There are many different product options available on the market today that are very effective in addressing this issue depending on the needs of the individual consumer. Some may be more effective than others with regard to specific applications.

Working as a technician, I run across installations far too often that have been changed before where the cowl was not removed, the glass was "stuffed" beneath with a rolled out round bead that has degassed and failed to adhere to the glass, or the previous installer simply over applied their adhesive which I would assume was to compensate for having to reposition their set once placed. Often times this would also result in pinchweld corrosion by trapping water runoff. These are cases of serious concern and should be addressed through continuing education and training.

I also want to add that anyone in training to install fixed glass should consult with their adhesive manufacturer's recommended procedures and not rely solely upon the opinion of someone in a marketing video unless it is that adhesive company's specific training video. What you see in a video may not be clear or thoroughly explained with regard to how that system is to be applied, and could be misinterpreted.

The real PROBLEMS in this industry are the BLOOD SUCKERS that come up with some idiotic CRAP to feed the consumer! They have to spook people into using them or there products. And then you get a hack job by some kid who completed a class, Or a so called Auto glass university.

Safelite to a 'T'

I also agree with the contaminated surface issue.
When you brushed, stripped, brushed and washed the surface and urethane.

First--after you stripped the urethane you used a "paint brush" that is most likely kept in your tool box next to your wrenches and ratchets that you use inside doors for glass replacement---oil and grease may have transferred from the handles to the whiskers of the brush you used therby spreading the contaminate all over that fresh cut urethane.
Second--ask Dale about this one--- When you were wiping the clean cut urethane, you were, or it appeared that you were, wiping back and forth over the urethane. We were taught ONLY wipe in one direction change positions of the lint free wipe to a clean portion or get a new wipe. It appears you did not.
I stand with Rick that I would not let my wife crash that car.

I'd let my (ex) wife crash it

Winning!

Keep doing what you do Dan, these guys have no clue who you are and your knowledge. I personally have used Rolladeck and i think it is a great tool. There is always people with negative thoughts, and of course perfect forum here, you hide behind a keyboard and a screen name. Some of the guys here may have shook your hand at conventions. lol just funny to me .

Ok you all are the best installers My windshield is installed with a tape kit
been there 20 yrs no rust and not killed one of us yet or leaked Been doing this for 38 yrs Same old story

In the wide world of glass; All of us have used many typs of thing to set aW/S. I have used the glass bot ,little buddy, all the others to. I have made tooles as well. We can say nasty things about every body's installs, but if you can get your hands on a rolladeck and use it you will see it does do as it is ment to do. For the people no here that bash others shame on you your the bad one here not the man in the vidio of the G6 install with the Rolladeck. The man uses a method with Dow products and he is doing it right as Dow instr. Water is good to but it's not the only one so stop being an a-..... and use your head , your methed is not the only one that is right . I have been in the glass ind. for over 35years an have don things different 365 day a year for 35 years and it all can't be right can it so be a man and stop bashing it shows how stuped you must be , you can't be that dumb to think you are the only one that is right? Teach your self befor you talk you do not know it all!!! And no one can . Every product has it way so have an open mind for one tyme in your life and try something new. I have used it and it works very well, and I will never use a little buddy after one let go on a SEL 600 one day with me , and no it was clean and brad new not old unit. $3500.50 in damages. Al you bellron girls need to get a life and read some books on other things to use . Maybe one day you can be a real Glass Man to.

I don't see any problems with how this guy prepped his job. He clearly says that if the factory bead had not peeled away with the paint he would not have cleaned because it would not been necessary. I totally agree with his approach. I do my installs the same way. I never saw a brush come out after he trimmed back the urethane. You can clearly hear the paint peeling off the pinchweld while he's trimming back the bead. What was he supposed to do prime over dirt? I would do it the same way to expand the contact surface and seal what remains of the factory paint system to areas beyond the area of paint failure.

This guy is right about his claims that Dow's GC800 is approved by them for use in this manner. Don't take his word for it, check the guide.

Good job Glassman! Takes a lot of stones to put yourself out there like that. Your Rolladeck tool looks very ingenious. I'll keep you in mind.

20 year old cars are constructed different then cars of today. You may think smoking is ok, seat belts are useless, women shouldn't have the vote or and of course you can drive home after after 8 scotches after work. Wake up and please keep you silly opinions to yourself. Ps speaking from 50 years of exp.

If auto glass is so precise and so much depends on the technician, then why are they paid so little?

I can answer that one for you,

YOU CHOOSE TO WORK FOR THAT LITTLE BIT OF MONEY. that's why.

Plus the way the industry is going there wont be much money in it to pay a decent wage..

I,MYSELF consider MYSELF to be a pretty good tech. I wear gloves, scrub frit, prime scratches, and shoot V beads(where my 13 years of experience tells me it's the appropriate place for). I also am not likely to remove a cowl if the entire lower bead is exposed. I also work deep into sub freezing conditions, because I don't have much of a choice. I do things that logic and experience dictate can be done right, and if I'm wrong I learn from my mistakes. But the truth is, that I loathe the people on this forum for forum for a multitude of reasons.
You almost all cry about safelite constantly. You all judge all other businesses and installers with no real knowledge of them.
Engineering dictates that V beads must be shot on anything, but when you guys swear by lil buddies, do you disregard the engineer that designed that window regulator. regulators are not load bearing, but you treat them like they are and call someone a hack for not removing the cowl panel on a fw3260.
truth is that I come on here time to time to use search function, but I trip over the garbage here that everyone throws around. no wonder Ive never made friends in this business.

That is a good point. It is for that point that the new thing to use is a Rolladeck , it doesn't put any thing on the windows to damage the car. It goes on the whipper post and it takes minutes to put on and off . Win I see people on here bashing others for trying new ways to install W/S 's it's almost always someone that has not been a vet. In the world of glass and has not tried anything but what they are given to use. That is how you can tell how much exp. someone has . The industry is going down hill day by day and I see Rome falling in the future,but in the mean time. Be good to your body and use something to help your self ,and be as safe as you can! 35+years has taken its toll on my body and I wish this Rolladeck system would have been sooner coming for me!

This post was never intended to be a marketing ploy or an attempt to embarrass anyone. It was more about bringing to the surface a hot button issue I believe we all share. How do we deal with the issue of contaminates? I have no ill regard for Rick Nelson or anyone else who voices their opinion on whether or not I contaminated the bead or lack there of a bead in my video when I cleaned around the top and sides of the opening. The truth is we all perform our procedures according to our training or our interpretation of the training we received. Ever since adhesive rep's and companies have been promoting certification of their products, they have stressed on the importance of pre cleaning the opening before cutting back the bead. No kidding? I think we established that. Please allow me to explain the chain of events in my video. I chose not to wet the opening on the G6 before stripping the bead because I knew that as the bead came away any moisture that remained would run over my "Fresh cut bead" Could have been distilled water from heaven and it wouldn't matter. Any contaminates that existed in the soiled perimeter around the opening would have been carried over my fresh bead. I would have also needed to wait for it to evaporate. I don't believe that even a 2600 psi pressure washer could eliminate every last trace of contaminates to produce a 100% absolute contaminate free environment. What remained of the bead was sp**** at best and I still stand behind my claims that Dow states that their GC 800 glass and surface cleaner is approved for the purpose I used it for. That doesn't mean the same applies for any other brand, and you need to consult with your product rep to determine how to proceed in any scenario. I have posted another video on my facebook page addressing this issue. Out of respect for the rules of this forum, I will not post a link here you will need to search for it yourself.

What is the Big Deal, They let Bob B get away with it.... While were talking about Bob, Why don't you give classes the the Body Shop industry so they can do their own work... Besides... BODY SHOPS...WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BODY SHOPS!!!!

Y'all are some wild and crazy guys. I gotta say that I am more inclined to believe someone posting a reasonable spin off off his real name who is easy to find as opposed to the girl who just admitted her private parts need some hygiene.

I have a lil buddy and to be honest it only gets used when there is no other option because of the setup issues. My boss is afraid of that whole collapsing regulator thing as well. But it's what I can afford for now.

I'm really saddened that this industry has so few professional resources. As a 22 year Marine I had access to libraries of info and data and training and standard based measurements. As a Dish Tech for two years I had multiple knowledge bases and a genuinely helpful forum called satellite guys.

We got this. A few nuggets surrounded by crapola. I can see why the autoglass u is underway and targeting body shops. And folks here just make up anatomically wired screen names. Truly awesome demonstration of "Embrace the Suck".

I hope Agrrmag is listening.

At a minimum we ought to have tool and technique reviews that tell it like it is. One of the many things learned in the Corps was how to field test a piece of gear and write an honest review. But, I've yet to see that in the AGR industry. Send it to me. I'll hook you up with the real deal. It's called being professional. I'd really like to see this place become the go-to resource for AGTechs. But what do I know? I am an hourly installer with only eight years in.

Hey Rollerdeck and Glassbot Guys, thanks for trying. Personally I hope ya make a million or two.

I've recently viewed the U Tube video of the G6 windshield replacement by GlassmanDan using the Rolladeck, and the comments made. I've been told I'm a very good tech but may not use great grammar, so bear with me. I thank those of you who see the need for new and innovative tools to assist in properly and safely replacing windshields and I have hands on experience with most of them. I am a second generation glassman with 39 years of experience, I am a certified tech in Dow AGSC AGRSS and even Safetite.... I have operated my own shop and worked with Shatterproof, Windshields America, Guardian and Safelite and currently am an independent contractor, and compete with GlassmaDan. I am a tech by trade and have been a multi shop manager and a sales rep as well as assisted in writing Best Practice Policies and tech handbooks so I understand the challenges our industry faces. I will admit that my comments are biased as I have worked with and know GlassmanDan for nearly 20 years. I would not only trust him to replace my wife's or daughter's windshields, but would in fact in trust him with the safety and well fair of my family in general, as he is a just and honorable man. As for the replacement of the G6 windshield and the procedures....well we can banter over details, but any good tech can plainly see that the job was done in compliance of industry standards.....and as for the questioning the Rolladeck's attributes, the tool performs exactly as it says it does. I know because I am the short dude in red in the video, Industry Professional Testimonial and I have and use the tool...
Thank you for taking the time to read these comments.

What is with all the hate for the Lil Buddy? I have been using it on almost every job since 2006! Never had a regulator give out. Honda Chevy VW Ford Mercedes Kia BMW Audi, NEVER.
Back in the day (1995) when I was forced to set by myself, I would occasionally scratch something, or scrape the urethane and have bad set. since then, not one bad set.
Every tool has upside and downside, just because YOU dont like it, doesn't mean it is a bad tool. I personally dont like the Rollerdeck, but why would anyone care? If they like it, and it works for them, GOOD! Anything that lets a tech do a good job is a good tool.
Quit bashing each other, and concentrate on issues that really matter. Like having to bill our biggest competitor for OUR money.

We have Lil Buddy Pro's in all our service vans. We use then daily. Never a problem. If we have a heavy windshield with a questionable door regulator. We tape up the door glass to frame and use a foam wedge to secure glass and its all good.

I have a lil buddy, not pro, and it works ok for me in a pinch. My boss is sure it will damage a regulator some day though. My ony beef is that the generic 7x9 inch placements per the instructions are close but not right on. So I dry set a lot to get it on the money. Anyway, the point of this is to give a ^5 for the wedgie idea. Consider that one stolen and if we ever meetup, I got your first drink of choice.

Most of us are professionals here.....lol. I'm willing to share. We use the thick foam blocks that come stuck on the windshields. We cut them into a wedge about a 45 degree cut from corner to corner. We found this to be optimal grip between the glass and the door. Use several to obtain what you feel to be secure for the weight that you will be supporting..... HTH

Yeah I have a bucket full of those blocks. Make everything from sitting blocks to reinforcement of weak spots (along with a hot glue gun) on very old door panels. Thx :-)

This I have to say is my favorite post on this particular thread. Someone saying it like it is from their own perspective. I believe that every tool that makes it from conception to fruition has a particular value. We are all different in the way we approach our trade. I started this thread from the perspective of a mobile production tech, not a tool salesman. Truth be told, that is exactly what I am.
I have adapted to the rigors of this trade from personal experience and suggestions of others. I'll admit that when Ken introduced his product to us at our store in 2004, I was apprehensive because it was a completely new approach to how we did things. Looking back I can see that maybe I didn't give his design the benefit of my own doubts. Honestly it was cutting edge and addressed a problem we all face with the little room for profit in labor cost. With proper maintenance it is a good tool! I just couldn't bring myself to leave my "comfort zone" my own way of doing things. I'm a big guy and could muscle in most sets before and was reluctant to bring anything in that would slow my roll. I'm getting older now and realize that I can't do it that way anymore. Necessity is the mother of invention! I'm sure Ken found his inspiration the same way. We all become accustom to doing things our own way. Sometimes it's best to stick with what you know, however sometimes it can payoff to have an open mind and try new things.

I have worked on both sides of the glass industry. Tools designed for the automotive ind. have proven highly beneficial to me on the architectural/ commercial side in the past and vise versa. Although I rarely touch a storefront or curtainwall anymore I still use my Kawneer spline roller to seat moldings and gaskets for automotive applications.

I have more than 1 cut out tool or method. I also have more than 1 setting device or method. Diversify, you will never be able to use a wire cut out system on a shield that has been smashed in a collision. You will never be able to utilize a swing arm setting device if the hood must be up to clear, the door glass missing, or there is limited space around the vehicle. You won't be able to use the Rolladeck in rare cases where there is opposing wipers, and an open cowl with no place to mount the device.

Thank you, glad I'm not the only one here. There is a forum for almost anything and the only autoglass forum I know (being this one) is pretty much useless due to lack of technical topics and not enough internet traffic. I see a lot of close minded smart a$$ es.

If this forum took a different direction and the main forum people stopped talking about one specific topic morr people would be inclined to utilize and contribute useful info.

Ive worked alongside veteran techs and trust me you can always teach an old dog new tricks.

Yall have a good one!

I guess I just can't leave well enough alone. But after reading all the crazy stuff about contamination I decide to call the horse and ask him straight up. I got an answer. Dale Barham of Dow automotive at 601-209-0331 says that GC800 is approved to clean the pinch weld again after trimming the bed if additional contamination is found.

He did clarify that once-upn-a-time only water was to be used. But, when they approved GC800 for use as a cutout lubricant, it was tested to see about any adhesion issues.

The only caveat that he added was the recommendation to spray the paper towel, vice the trimmed bed, then wipe away the contamination. This minimizes the possible chances of any other contamination getting on it. And if you're in the winter you don't have to worry about the chemicals in the GC 800 freezing. So there it is. The car is apparently safe to crash and that's our goal.

Thanks Phil for being a true professional and reporting the facts as you know them. I am a very proud professional myself with almost 30 years working experience, but I also realize that I'm only human and are capable of making a mistake or misinterpreting facts just like anyone else. Rick Nelson was calling me out for demonstrating improper techniques in my video. My first thought was does he know something I don't know? I double checked my facts and reported them back, but instead of accepting that he may be misinformed he continued to try to discredit me. Why? I don't know. If he was truly more concerned about improper procedures, he could have saved face and wrote me a private email or called me on the phone. We could have discussed it privately rather than posting it on my public video. This G6 vehicle lost most of the bead in the areas that I scrubbed due to paint failure, hence the title of the video. Had that not occurred, I would not have cleaned anything after cutting back the bead because I want that fresh cut surface to bond to. This is something my Dow rep taught me 20 years ago.

We're not there to detail the car around the bonding surface. That's why I like to apply the bead directly to the body as opposed to the glass, and my setting system makes it easy for me to get the windshield properly aligned with the opening. I know that I have achieved the desired results. My long knife is not barbaric, but more like a surgeon's scalpel. I have much greater control with my cutting depth and avoid damage to the substrate as opposed to a scraper. It's all how you learn. People will see what they want to see. I'll bet if my critics stare at the video long enough, they will see a unicorn in the background.

When did the laws change allowing women to vote???

I rolled back and I do not see where Rick Nelson called you out? If he did he did, he is a little like me, I think he just says what he thinks :) And that's why I would let him buy me a stiff drink anytime I see him :) And I have & use his tool, now not all the time but when appropriate and I love it. Other than seeing you use the tool in one of your videos I have not seen it in person, I would like to and years ago had a similar sort of Idea. Well not anything you rolled... Matter of fact I will not say I am sure someone will call it a dumb idea :)

I think you should also realize that many things have changed with lil buddy, what they currently offer, and the the difference from what Belron sells as the lil buddy pro2. I understand that there are situations which people think they can't use the tool, but those are few and far between.

Pssst, Dan.

"The only caveat that he added was the recommendation to spray the paper towel, vice the trimmed bed, then wipe away the contamination. This minimizes the possible chances of any other contamination getting on it."

According to Dale Barham of Dow automotive at 601-209-0331, you did it wrong.

Dead horse. Let it go.

Glassmandan:
I've asked you before & not been answered, do you do mobile w/s installs outside in parking lots or people's driveways?

I apologize Sglass, I must have missed that question. Yes, I run mobile every day. Insurance customers at their home or place of business. I also service too many dealer and body shop accounts to count, as well as heavy equipment and RV accounts including flat lami and custom tempered to order. Florida has favorable weather all year, just have to dodge the rain drops and find shade when possible. Oh and drink lots of Gatorade.

As a person who claims to follow safe w/s guidelines to the strictest letter & someone who professes to care so much, I find you to be hypercritical when it comes to putting $$$ in your pocket. Every mobile install you perform legitimizes this practice in the industry. You aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I can say this because I DO NOT do mobile. I was part of the AGRSS comitte that formed the guidelines so please spare me the excuses. Just get off the pulpit & admit you are like other people in the industry.
JMHO

Ok Sglass, you got me. I actually get up and go to work every day to make $$$ I have to wonder though, you seem awefully sore over the competition providing mobile service to their customers. Does this make it difficult for you to compete in today's market? I don't see the problem you speak of. I've been providing mobile service to my customers for almost 30 years. I've studied the AGRSS standard in great detail. I don't recall a clause anywhere that states it is impossible to deliver a factory equivalent quality installation in a parking lot or a driveway. Do you have commercial accounts like dealers, body shops, municipalities? Do they bring everything to you? What about the single mother of 3 whose basketball hoop fell and crashed through her windshield rendering the vehicle inoperable? Do you force her to call a tow company to bring her vehicle to you, then call a cab to come and retrieve it when you are finished? I'll bet the insurance company gladly pays that tow bill, NOT
Your market may allow you to function in an all in shop operation. What about rural markets where there's not a glass shop on every corner like 7/11?
Do you think that people are going to drive over a hour when there is a service provider willing to come to their door?
If you are interested in learning how to operate a mobile service unit, give me a call. I will be happy to train you for a nominal fee. As you pointed out, I am not a not for profit organization.

Not offering mobile service these dayz is like running a 3 legged horse in the Kentucky Derby............

Having a standard is a good thing but it is hard to tell what the real intention of those on the original safety council were all about. Not sure that consumers were the ones who the safety net was originally erected for.