A question for you $100.00 profit guys.

How do you get to the point that 100.00 is what your work is worth, in the year 2007 that is not much profit and a hundred dollar bill buys very little today and it is really only $75.00 or less after you pay your taxes.

Wake up guys and you new mobile guys try a little harder to make a buck, your only cutting your own throat when give it away. learn to sell your work and quit giving it away.

Just for giggles what do you think these mobile only guys should profit off each job.

Depends on their overhead.Some guys have their wives working and bringing in good ins and pay.All they need is a van and a few tools and thats it.I agree that 100.00 is an insult,but if they do 10 jobs a week that might be close to what they were bringing home for pay after everything anyways.If the wholesalers would stop selling them glass for what a mid sized company pays for it would end.That is where it needs to start.Old news,and topics.

Stevey my point exactly the distributors are the REAL problem, not NAGS (they might or might not be a problem depends on who you talk to)

Let me ask everyone a question...

We all have to start somewhere. If people wouldn't sell you glass when you were starting out I wonder what you would have done? hmmm?

If you had to be able to buy in bulk from the get go the competition would'nt be nearly as bad, but most of you probably wouldn't be in business either.

AGN guess what? when I wanted to open an account with PPG they did not want me.. so I guess that answers your question, 10 years ago this BS did not FLY...

today any dog nut can get an account at PPG :(

I'm a reasonable enough fellow.

I can understand pricing differences based on volume of glass purchased, but my point is that if everyone shut the door in your face there are a lot of people here that might not be in business.

When I went to open accounts I got a lot of unsure looks and a lot of questions. They were very careful not to be selling to someone who was just doing side work or something. I had to show a business license, tax exempt number, articles of incorporation and a federal tax id number. In essence I had to prove that I had time and money invested into truly starting my own business.

As for PPG, they didn't want me at first either...I bought strictly (and still do mostly) from OD. It took PPG several months to offer me an account. They wanted to make sure I was serious.

There is no longer a middle class in the auto glass industry. Democracy does not exist in our industry as long as the insurance industry and their version of Darth Vader control our universe.

LW, They don't control anything we choose to let them control us. If one big and a handful of mid size players independently refused work or charged a copay that would be the end of this.

The problem is that we as an industry have not gotten to that point. Remember, insurance companies and TPA's have long since shifted from customer satisfaction to share holder satisfaction.

Maybe our children will be smarter then us?

PPG will deliver a windshield for 50 bucks to a tailgater's living room, lean it up against the couch on the carpet. This is a fact, I know many of their drivers well, some for over 20 years. If you can breathe and own a hook tool, they will sell to you.
AGN, again, why not do 3 jobs a day for 200.00 profit each instead of 8 jobs at 75 dollars profit? Work smarter, not harder. You don't realize that in the end, you're ruining markets for yourslef down the road, and ruining it right now for the balance.

I guess you must know something that I don't know Glasssgod...either that or you are the only auto glass shop in your town.

My competition would eat my lunch if I marked up $200. I wish that I could...I would love to make that kind of money...but it just isn't happening around here. I shoot to make at least $100 on most jobs, but even that isn't always possible.

With 20 some other companies to compete with I don't have to worry about eroding this market...its already been done for me!

I'd try to do 3 @ 150.00 profit instead of 8 @ 60.00 but if the pickings are slim then ya gotta do what ya gotta do I guess. We're in a large market with 75 shops around but there's enough to go around (for now).

Good point AGN. Your competition can dictate some of your pricing. And it is always a good idea to know where your competition is on pricing, quality, training programs, and such.

Safelite in our area qoutes DW1549 installed for $210, and a few others competitors are cheaper than that.

It can get frustrating to explain the differences all the time, but then again, by not matching their prices we avoid a majority of the "price is everything" type customers who, around here, tend to be more hassle than it is worth.

We also have a very loyal customer base that knows we are looking out for them, which makes going to work each day so much nicer because there is far less hassles, complaints, etc.

Stop selling on price. Anyone can do that, and will. You have to differentiate yourself because you will not survive in the price wars.

AGN

You have not even been in business long enough to tell us you can not sell for more! Next week try the $150 profit way and do not give in to a cheaper price for one week. You try to sell yourself to us all the time, why not try it on the consumer. Sell your experience and product and not some lowballing price that any Joe blow can do. You might do a few less jobs but you will make more profit for less work.....You came to this forum wanting advice from independents and have been getting great responses from your questions. These guys helped you with your uniforms,business name,advertising,vehicle,insurance,technical questions, and tons of free advice. Why not trust us on the money and profit issues?

in sacramento,ca. i be lucky if i make $100 profit.
i will take a $100 profit anyday, even on sunday.

Good suggestion OMG. I'm an open minded guy. I apologize for getting heated glasssgod. Been a stressful day.

I do appreciate all the advice, the things I have learned here and the people I have learned from.

At the first of the year I put into effect a pricing strategy that works for me. I no longer price each job according to who is on the other end of the phone. I have a set price I charge for my cash work and a set price for my commercial work. I've lost some jobs and gotten some jobs.

In time, once I build up my customer base I hope to focus more on less work more profit...right now I'm just getting started.

what i am wondering is, why if a shop can make a living at $100 profit that, that is a problem? if their overhead is low enough i don't see the problem. at $100 profit per job, i would still make a lot more than working for someone. i generally charge alot more than that, but i am in a market that allows for it and i have a great customer base.
but there are some fleet accounts that i do alot of work for that i don't always make $100 profit on.

Glassgod it obvious you hate me , but that is ok do you have any clue how many glass shops are in AZ (just in Phoenix??) I bet without even BS there has to be atleast 400 and then + the car wash kiddies (hi az software company) there is ATLEAST another 200.

I can guarantee you I pay my bills and sit on my toosh every nite in my theater room, and enjoy a nice name brand beverage.

However I work from 6am - 6pm everyday and sometimes till midnite, And I am not making only $100 per job. You all think I am this price *****, which was said by somone who i will not mention, However I would bet, A NON internet quote is **** near what your getting cash, What do you do a 1217 for cash? I get around 2 bills + for somone calling me.

Also if your in NY (i have no clue where you are) that the cost of living and EVERYTHING is sky high, including taxes... So your $150 that might be enuff to you might in BFE Virginia a kings salary..

THANK YOU BTO and BQA!!!

That is part of my point. Overhead is a big part of what you have to charge. I can make a nice living on $100 profit per job...I can't always get it, but I try.

And A-freakin' MEN to the point about making more then working for someone else!!

I'm gonna move somewhere where I can chrage $150 profit and then do 3 jobs a day! Anyone know any good area for that?

yeah the catskill mountains

i use to work for a shop few years ago. do about 6-10 cars a day inshop,and i only get paid $90 per day.
now if i can make $100 profit per job. man that's alot of money.

seems to me that with being legit whether you're storefront or mobile van only that $100.00 profit would not give you a fighting chance of being around in the future. if you pay the necessities of garage keeper's ins, general liability ins, van ins, electric bill, water bill, van maintenance, advertising, business phone(not a residential #), future schooling/training, billing software, 941 taxes, state taxes, bwc, sales tax, accountant, wow! plus the parts for the job and your paycheck if anything is left over. these are the majority not to count what i have left out. good luck with those small $60-$100 profit margins.

I'm with AG. I used to make just a lil' over $100 a day working for the corp. auto glass chains. I can quadruple or even more my income working for myself.

I pay all of the insurances you just mentioned. I don't have a light bill, business phone or anything like that. I use an unlimited time cell phone that goes with me everywhere I go.

I can do all of this and still make a good living at $100 profit per job.

not everyone can afford a w/s. they are just mad at us cause we get the job and they don't. everyjob i do takes
about an hour or more to install w/s. i do give lifetime
warranty on workmanship. you guys don't want to no what i charge for temp/glass.

Larry, the only person on earth I hate are Osama Bin Laden, Hugo Chavez, and Kim Jong, and any other dictators/murderers that I forgot.

Hey glassgod I will tell you where I am, I am not hiding in a cave :)

Also what the hell is "Profit"

Profit and mark up are not the same thing!

If Kim Jong Ill wasn't such a scumbag he would actually be pretty funny!!

Ever see that puppet movie where he was the villian??

"I make good prans!!!"

jrobe
my insurance is $200 per month for all of it, including van, no electric, no water, van maintenance is minimal, $200? or so per month,less than $200 in advertising, i get two business lines from qwest for $59.95 per month plus around $120 for cell phone, training is less than $100 per month, billing software $60 month, one man shop no 941, we have no state income tax, is bwc workers comp? not needed, sales tax is added to the invoice not taken out of profit the customer pays that, we spend about $60 per month for quickbooks and turbo tax, that adds up to about $1000 per month, ten jobs. add another $500 for van payment still 15 jobs, i do that a week.

who is the jong guy ? apparently i should have went to college...

ANYONE;and i mean ANYONE replacing w/s's at $100.00 profit,is only doing a dis-service to themselves and the industry as a whole.
If your spouse is working at another place of business,what would you say to their managers when your spouse is told that they will be taking pay cuts every 3-4 months,and get paid by what their managers feel to be fair and reasonable.
The only shops that seem to think this is a commodity,are the low priced installers/shops that must see the same cars every other week due to stress cracks,leaking,stone chips all over the thin off-shore glass,chips cracking and need to be replaced again.Some people feel that they are soooo smart,yet,they are sooooooo dumb.
Anyone with even half a business mind knows that this is an asinine way of running a profitable business;unless ,of course;you are only in it for the short term.All this does is drive pricing down even further,never to really re-bound back.
When they finally find out that they are NOT making any money they close up leave.
Why is it that our prices differ by the hundreds of dollars rather than a couple of dollars on cash quotes? "COMPETITION"? (balogna).
Everyone here have a great day,even the ones who do this as a hobby.

i am begining to tire of all the back and forth here, each participant must follow their own path. none of you can convince the other that you are right.

some of you are right about having to start somewhere, and some of you are right about working to cheap.

i would guess the whole thing revolves around your vision, i must lean to the long term, although i understand the having to start somewhere argument.

my concern was when you are old enough to retire, what are you going to have? 100 bucks profit, just to throw a useless number out there, might be fine today. are you satisfied when you retire living on just what you have been able to save? do you seriously think you can do the same number of w/s per day when you get to be 50 or 60?

what will you have to sell? a pile of worn out tools and a wore out van? As far as that goes, even if you have a location and don't own the real estate, what do you really have to sell? i'm not sure the market will be full of people who want to buy a job?

i heard a radio show once, some guy called in who was partners with a guy and wanted to know what the business was worth. He got told his business was worthless because both partners were working over 50 hours a week to make the money they were making. the radio host told them if they were on the golf course 3 days a week and making that kind of money, then they would have something that they could sell.

stop with the my way is better, i want to hear about you guy's thoughts for the future and how you plan to get there. I don't think many of us on here are business owner's in the traditional sense, i know i am not, but i am trying to move in that direction.

stop trying to show each other up with the here and now,,,,where will you be in 20 years? will i be retired or working like i am today 50 or 60 hours a week, trying to make ends meet and having very little to show for it. i sure hope i can get things figured out so you all are not paying for my social security. haha.

while i am in this mood,,,,,,,

i admit i haven't read the autoglass magazine that sponsors this site.

would it be worthwhile to have a business section, monthly that would help people understand the real way to run a business? something that would help give us a template for sucess?

i would definitely take time to read a monthly column like that.

Start somwhere? They should have started at the bank to secure a loan,then go get insurance,a vehicle,and a supplier and last but not least,a location.
If they have to start out of their truck/van,then it seems there is no money to grow the business in the first place.They will then lower the price in-order to get the work that they now have to fight for.
My customers like the fact that i can be reached for any problems that may arise.No messages to leave,no showing up at my house wondering if i'll be there this time.Controlled enviroment,so my work load does not get overly burdoned when the weather does not co-operate.In my mind they are only called one thing,a backyard mechanic.
I do believe that the suppliers need to go back to the adage of; time in service,amount purchased.
I can remmember the times where you NEEDED a location in order to recieve glass from the distibuters.Otherwise you bought from your local glass shop.

vermont,

that finger pointing is not going to help anybody.

i followed the path that you did, sounds like. my first business loan was for 9,000. now that amount don't sound like much, while you are paying bills.

looking backwards isn't very helpful, what are your plans for the future, and how are you going to get there?

John;
My future plans started 2 yrs ago when i got off the networks.I work diligently with our attorney generals office.I stopped playing the lowest price game.I REFUSE to let my competitors dictate the way i run my business.
I grow due to customer service,word of mouth,and doing more in autoglass than just w/s's.My kids and their college bills depend on me.No way could i afford to do this out of the back of a van only.
I work alone and in no-way can i make a living (not just for me but my family)By charging $100-150 above cost.

just think of yourself as the customer for a second? if you could save $25 on a ws job by using a company with a throw away cell phone (RED FLAG should go up)or a company that has a legit store front or even a legit business phone number, which would you choose? wouldn't you be wary of future problems that may arise if you needed warranty work or had troubles with craftsmanship? it's too easy to just dissolve this little business and start over under another name and throw away cell phone. it's just like taking a chance by buying something on the internet. some are legit and some are not. jmo

I find it very interesting for 1 to say that if you work out of the back of a van that you are a "BACKYARD MECHANIC"!!?? If any of you have ever worked for a Glass Company that offers Mobile Service and you in fact drove from 1 job to the next,then I guess at such time you were just a
"BACKYARD MECHANIC"!!, I am very passionate about the wording because I have worked for over 15 years for the "Chew em up" and "Spit em out Companies",In 2001 I decided enough is enough and decided to venture out on my own,And guess how I did it? Thats right with just a VAN!! Over the years I made many relationships with accounts,They constantly said to me,Why dont you start your own Auto Glass? You will have our business,
Of course many say that but few follow,Well anyways I just want to clear the record that while some may drive around in a Van replacing Auto Glass,That that alone does not Instantly justify them as some sort Of HACKER! Its is the day to day practices that one assumes that makes them or breaks them, I for one will never put my customers safety 2nd,Anyone thats been doing auto glass for years should know what is acceptable,If you leave a job concerned, or even wondering ever so slightly, then perhaps you need to re-think your Auto Glass Capabilities.

(Oh and as far as profit goes? I do very well,I never sell myself short and fall into the traps of LOW PRICING, You Really do get what you pay for! Educate your customers on this mere fact and they will remain with you.)

If all they have is a van ,couple of tubes of urethane,a few tools and a home to return to after their mobile job and charge $100.00 over cost;THEN YES they are a BACKYARD MECHANIC.

Vt.Glass Shop, Do you provide Mobile Service? If so would you consider yourself a "Backyard Mechanic",Having A shop does not warrant you of some sort of GOD!

Yes, i provide mobile service.But not out of my house.Nor do i do anything that has to do with glass from my house.Nor do i charge stupidly low prices,just because i am able to.
You have taken the backyard mechanic further than what i said.
God?no not me,someone has already taken that.

talk about a lack of communication, i leave for 10 minutes and you all attack vermont.

that is a bunch of crap, lets start with an easy question. do you think a one man operation can make enough money to retire, with only a wore out van and wore out tools to sell when you hang it up?

do you think you can put enough money away during your money earning years to live anywhere near normal when you retire.

knock off the bashing, i already know i am not capable of doing the same amount of work i used to, some of that due to the new design of vehicles. we put in 2 w/s in a 1949 chevy pickup today, imagine the way auto glass will change in the next 20 years or so.

from the looks of things none of you are capable of thinking further ahead than this weeks paycheck. vermont i commend you for getting off the networks as one of your steps to prepare for the future.

I have not taken anything further if everyone scrolls up you will this written by Vt.Glass Shop>

(Quote"My customers like the fact that i can be reached for any problems that may arise.No messages to leave,no showing up at my house wondering if i'll be there this time.Controlled enviroment,so my work load does not get overly burdoned when the weather does not co-operate.In my mind they are only called one thing,a backyard mechanic.
I do believe that the suppliers need to go back to the adage of; time in service,amount purchased.
I can remmember the times where you NEEDED a location in order to recieve glass from the distibuters.Otherwise you bought from your local glass shop.
Email: vt.glass.shop@verizon.net" End Quote)


Sounds like bashing to me!
You sound as though you must have a shop to do things correctly! Not True..........

And I Never Charge Ridiciously LOW PRICES!!!!!!!

i drive an 03 van i guess thats old and worn out it has 50,000 miles on it, it is also paid for, i have a nice house which i own and a duplex which i own we put about $500 each per month in savings and retirement if iwas working for you vermont a doubt i would make $500 a week just like all the other companies that use up their able bodies i am 29 plan to retire from glass by 40 evertime i wear out my tools i replace them with new ones because that is my lively hood. i don't even hardly advertise because of the people that refer me to their friends, and do more work for them. but i guess i am just a hack, have less than 5 comebacks per year out of close to 1000. we are in a very small market so word of mouth is very important. we also don't make that little on cash jobs we charge alot more but when we first started we were in a lorger market and were lucky to make $100 profit on any job. i started my business with a final paycheck and all my tools. i have been in the glass business since i could crawl, and i know working for someone else would be alot less profitable.

and because of shops like vermont, sglass and the others that are the only ones that know how to do glass thats why this industry will never stick together, why would i want to even be around those types of people? if you guys could get past yourselves and realize there are other ways to do it, we would all be better off. also i would never try to convince you guys to do it my way because you might actually make some money and be competition.

BQA,

why the personal attack, just because you are mobile? Don't you think the tpa's are painting us all with an awful broad brush, trying to convice insurance companies we all do work the same quality as their shops?

it sounds like you are looking to the future being able to put away money into a retirement account, and some into real estate. What are you going to do at 40? Geeze, if you live another 40 years to 80,(which i think is getting to be the average life span), will you have enough money to support you for another 40 years? that seems hard to imagine, although i saw more than half my retirement dissapear the last time the stock market went crazy.

how bout the rest of you, when do you plan to retire or are you going to work till you're 80 like me?

BQA

one more point you made that makes sense, when you spoke about comming together as an industry,,,,

we have to fight right here about mobile versus shops....

it really don't matter, the TPA's are selling our entire industry down the river saying all installations are equal,,,,,now that is something that should make us all mad enough to do something, regardless of where we do the work.

and i also agree with those who have stated being the cheapest is the kiss of death.

BQA,

another thing i forgot to tell you, my newest vehicle is a 96 van with over 100,000 miles on it.

hope i can make that last another 20 years. haha.

i am not attempting to offend anybody talking about the age of vans and stuff, i am just pointing out a customer i had that was in the construction field, he worked his whole life doing smaller construction work, and when he died, his kids told me all he had was a wore out truck, wore out tools....i am just trying to avoid leaving my kids and wife in the same situation. that is why i am trying to grow the business, so they have something to sell when i am not here.

i would appreciate any opinions that would help accomplish that task.

i am planning to retire from glass at 40, not retire. and by the way am i the only one that believes profit is the money you put in your pocket? maybe i am wrong, we are not talking $100 markup, we are talking after the expenses. if we are talking markup than it should be closer to $175- $200 over cost.

1. Location + employees = Self employed and an auto glass business owner

2. One man show = self employed in the auto glass business

3. Location + no employees = Self employed but trying to look like an auto glass business owner or used to be an auto glass business owner but now just self employed in the auto glass business.

4. Mobile only + employees = Self employed in the auto glass business and to cheap to invest in an auto glass business.

I guess I just fail to understand how you can mark something up $200 when everybody around you is marking up $100 - $150. I just don't see enough people knowing the difference between quality of glass and such to keep you in business.

I guess I need a re-education or something.

If I begin marking up $200 I can see myself giving out a lot of quotes and doing very little, if any work.