My t.p.a. advises that I am allowing too much for kits.

Have you found that your High Modulus/Non-Conductive Urethane prices have decreased over the last few years?

Are the $20/30/40 allowance examples posted on
http://www.glassbytes.com/newsnagsdis20070109.php
a realistic allowance?

no

Hal, over all costs are not and have not gone down, actually costs are rising, and you know this. Over the years High mod urethanes have come down a bit, but hey Look at NAGS, the ins ind standard, what do they say a high mod kit goes for??? $ 90.00 for a 1 and $180. oo for a 2 kit. Go by nags Hal, all or none,,, pick one!!! Thank you The posted examples are NOT realistic!

Hal

Did your TPA file bankruptcy once upon a time? Do you hear what this forum is saying or do really work for Safelite? Your asking if costs have gone down, you have got to be freakin kidding.

Hal, why do you keep yanking our chain?

Do hear anything we tell you?

I cant believe any insurance agent or company would use Safelite after the whole 20/20 thing and all the bankruptcy. I only do business with companies that pays its bills and has a good credit score .

It just goes to prove that the agents and insurance companies could care less about safety ,its all about that bottom line figure .

milk up
gas up
ins. way up every time i turn around
cost of goods up
phone bill up
rent up
cam charges up
payroll up
discount off glass per nags up
cmon hal get a grip
you really asking about 10 bucks for a kit?
break it off in me man i can take it

Hey Hal have you ever watched an install done I can not think of a single vehicle that uses just one tube of urethane most insatalls take aleast 1 1/2 tubes so at the prices you mention we will not even cover our cost of the urethane I guess we should just give it to you for n/c yea right!

Hal, if you intended to aggravate us, you have succeeded.

Tell me. Aside from auto glass loss pay outs, which we all know have gone down, have YOUR costs of doing business and expenses gone down?

Your post is offensive to all of us.

I think we all may be a little disappointed.

Hal, you are just too funny.

Your TPA is telling you.......

Well, of course they are. They have no ulterior motive. THey have no agenda of their own. They have no reason to skew the numbers to get insurers to help them pinch their competitors. Nope, no reason at all.

No one is watching. No one is speaking of things like unfair competition, deceptive trade practices, predatory practices, or collusion. Nope, not a soul.

Yep, the water is fine.

If the cost of a commodity has decreased, I feel I should adjust accordingly. I simply asked for confirmation that prices have declined on this item.

OH MY GOD
Hal you can't be serious.
If you are please contact me.
I have a bridge for sale you may be interested in.

hal your word rings loud and clear "COMMODITY" YOU WANT TO TREAT QUALITY AND SAFETY AND CUSTOMERS LIVES AS A COMMODITY HOW WELL YOU KNOW YOUR BUS. INSURANCE IS A CRAP SHOOT ALWAYS HAS BEEN ALWAYS WILL RISK YOU ACCEPT THE RISK FOR MONEY AND THEN TRY TO ASSESS THAT RISK WHEN IT DOESN'T PAY OFF TO REPAIAR SHOPS!! YOU ARE A MASTER JEDI

Hal, The commodity of urethane did not go down.

But labor has gone up, does that mean that your are willing to adjust up for the cost of living? Or does it only work when it's for your benefit?

This has to rank as the stupidest question I ever heard put forth on this great forum. How many millions and millions and millions does State Auto need Hal? (Mark1 probably has profit figures). Very convenient of you to stay out of previous threads regarding price fixing and high mod glue but now you decide to chime in. Would you like to know if our costs on razor blades or toilet paper has changed? How about my phone bill? Do you need to know if that has decreased also? This is why most of us hate dealing with insurance companies. This is why I tell many people with SGC controlled insurance companies to have Safelite do your replacement and good luck. Now I at least have proof to show customers how a glass program adminstrator at a large ins. co. openly asks us how we can please screw ourselves. That is priceless.

DW1256GBY list price: $244.75
Kit: $40.00
Moulding List price: 20.34
Last Post: Priceless $$

HAL - if we all used Sika ASAP as a non-conductive urethane(which it is not) like SGC has, then sure we could go for the $20 per kit.

I wonder if there is a way to "recall" all the Audi and Volkswagen's SGC has installed to check for himod/non-conductive urethane application? I wonder how many are ASAP?

ccc...great point. There is little chance Hal's TPA's service provider uses high mod glue when called for. Why would they when they utilize any and every other short cut available? Like shaving moldings, not removing cowls and on and on and on.
Hal, have your spies go watch your TPA's auto glass service provider install a Beetle windshield and determine if they are using high mod glue. Send me the bill, since your poor company needs to save money while screwing shops that are trying to help your customers who pay in money for peace of mind; while their relentless glass program adminstrator seeks ways to provide a cheap, unsafe remedy to their losses. Even Larry doesn't get me this upset.

Sorry I can't stop at that...

...Your problem HAL is you continue to use an "inefficient" company as your "standard" HAL. What does it take for you to understand this?

They have the worst network to deal with, the most EDI rejections by far, they are the ONLY network that will not let shops help process claims (easing the burden on the insured)why is that? They may have used improper urethanes, they install mostly a generic aftermarket (oh wait I mean "OE equivalent" glass without notifying the insured, they drove themselves to bankruptcy once already, the list goes on and on.

You have no doubt seen the "cold-weather installation" instructions on this message board. Yet, I watched an SGC tech just yesterday installing a windshield across the street from my shop, he was done in 30 minutes, and it was 30 degrees outside. Is that what you feel is "efficient"?

We used to have some very good dialog with you HAL on this forum, but lately it seems you have no mind of your own.

Like so many glass claims managers you have become your own worst enemy. You are falling into the SGC trap, lowering prices, and never seeing the big picture.

Oh wait, my bad, you only have ONE big picture, your bottom line.

--- I think we all do give HAL credit for at least asking us? Nothing scarier than a glass claims manager that blindly follows the "voices in his head", namely SGC.

Stay warm HAL

Hal
All you have to do is order a freight train car full of Wonderthane from one of the major wholesalers out there. At these quantity's you should be able to get a tube for $1.50@. Then you make a deal with UPS or Fedex to deliver the thane where needed. This would save untold thousands of $. Of course you will have to warehouse it and pay someone to pack/ship it. And if it doesn't show up in time the customer will understand you are doing this to save them money in the long run as your ins co's wont have to raise there ins rates to cover the cost of high priced thane.

ccc...I don't give Hal credit for asking about our costs.
Maybe we should start a dedicated thread in which we can all post any accesory or "commodity" that we receive a price reduction on? There's only so much rope left, and Hal wants us to give the go-ahead to tie another knot in it. I can't even believe this anymore.

I gave him credit for asking for our input. Isn't that better than him blindly following SGC advice? At least now he knows how we feel about the "advice" he received. I do not think he wanted our COST persay, he simply wanted to know if our costs went down over the last bit on that product and if the $20,30,40 posted was "fair and reasonable".

Hopefully he got the point we were all making. Guess we all shall see if our input meant anything.

I am like many here, either accept NAGS in its entirety or throw it out. It really has little merit now anyway. No TPA follow NAGS list, they set their own adhesive prices, and many do not use NAGS labor either.

Maybe HAL would prefer us using the $1200.00 PPG or PILK list prices again?

By the way HAL, if you really wanted to save money, have your insureds request a CASH price from SGC, pay the bill and promise to pay them back in 10 days. You might be surprised how cheap you would get windshields installed for if you did that.

Just check their website for cash prices and compare it to what you are paying for insurance jobs billed thru Safelite. Might be fun if you are bored during lunch today.

This is just amazing. I am at a total loss of words here.
Our cost of EVERYTHING has gone up. How the heck does your TPA know what other companies are paying for urethane? They may know what they are paying. They may be able to buy in a national bulk order to fill their warehouses to distribute to their own glass shops. The small and medium size companies cannot afford to purchase in mass bulk quantities as SGC can. The shelf life of the urethane wouldn't even make it worth buying such bulk quantities.
Oh how I am biting my tongue to be nice here. Hal, you need to go sit in a real glass shop for a month or more and see the light. You try making those calls to SGC with YOUR insureds. You try getting pre-approval for net cost parts or OEM items. You try it ALL from the start of a claim to the date you get paid for the claim.
No Hal, our cost for kits have not decreased. They have increased. More and more vehicles are requiring High Modulus/ Non-Conductive Urethanes. Now tell your TPA that you want to increase the kit amount

GUYS you are trying to reason with the devil. I think HAL gets a rise at the fact that you may not be able to feed your family. Why else would someone throw salt on your wounds with a question like that?

Well one day people high up in the insurance industry may have to answer for the overall degredation of our trade and when the prison sentances go out hope Hal' or any of his closest are not all in the pokey missing those lazy thursday afternoon golf games followed by some scotch and cigars .

I just turned one down from Nationwide after the guy wanted me to eat a 100 deductible on a 97 escort. No room to make a dollar there thanks to the current nags situation .

Instead of trying to micromanage costs of certain billable items on a claim down to the skull, why do you not make a graph of the average costs of a good or service over a 20 year period like say building materials/construction industry and then do autoglass and adjust the pay scale to real world non aftermarket chinese and bean counter levels.

People run a business to make profit, why shouldnt we all be able to do just that ?It's not a crime to make a living off the trade that you have invested 20 years of your life in Hal.

Because as Mark1 posted, HAL listens to our direct competitor as his "consultant" on what should be charged in this industry.

Of course SGC, his "consultant" would never want all of us(their competitors) to look bad, inefficient, or appear like we are charging to much now would they?

I would like to applaud everyone for their replies to Hal.

Short of any other profound comments, I'm going to end mine with this addition:

Hal, We will consider your input on what your company feels it should pay if and when a State Auto employee comes to our business with a State Auto owned vehicle, or when State Auto contracts repairs with us for a customer's car WITH a signed authorization in hand from the actual property owner authorizing you to contract for those repairs with us.

Until then, We negotiate prices for our products and services with our customer, the property owner, directly, and only, not with you, or your TPA, behind the property owner's back, especially when that happens with consideration for 'referrals' from you to us. I have no conflict of interest.

Thank you and have a nice day.

ccc
Sika ASAP is non-conductive, it isn't high modulus though. for high modulus you have to use Sika COOL, and i think their new product MOVE-IT is an all in one modulus and non-conductive. i believe that all Sika urethanes are non-conductive.

Not all shops use the same products nor are they sold to the shops at the same prices. Most shops are having to charge the insurance companies below their cost for the urethane and must make it up on the margin of the other parts used.
What are your thoughts on this subject now Hal, since you brought this conversation up? Are you still following this thread?

He is figuring if he is allowing to much for clips and moldings, I think the price of plastic went down this week! And BTW gas went down below $2.00 again, hold on to your wallets.

Hal you are our my HERO! You never miss a trick.