I think that we all agree that windshield fit is an important aspect to the goal of achieving safe windshield installations. My questions are.
1. Specific to DOT#s. What percentage of the windshields you produce meet OE fit tolerances?
2. How would an accepted fit standard impact the manufacturing process if an existing product doesn't meet the tolerances?
3. What would be the impact of an accepted standard fit guideline to a manufacturer and all of it's entities if their product is not in compliance?

L.W.

Let me play devil's advocate

1. One DOT number is assigned to each manufacturer.
2 I would guess that they would all say that all of their windshields meet manufacturers tolerances.
( by the way, how do you get those tolerances?)
3. What is an "accepted fit standard"?

I think it would make for a great article for AGRR to do a "fit" article. Select a common windshield installed in most of the country and have an "expert", maybe even a panel of experts (ppg, safelite, pilkinton reps) dry fit different brands in a check fixture for that vehicle and see who truly is walking the walk and not just talking the talk.

Come on manufacturers put your money where your mouth is and lets see who truly makes the best fitting glass. If you generic glass is the best so be it, if your chinese made OEM glass is the best so be it, and lets also check a dealer bought OE glass for that vehicle, say with a GM logo on it.

Of course they will never do this, but I think AGRR could come up with someway to test this or hire an independant company to do it!!!

Each manufacturing plant has their own DOT#.
The car manufacturers already have tolerances in place for OE equipment. I say to be like kind and quality they would have to meet the tolerances that are already in place for fit. Break out the check fixtures.

I would really be interested to see how the manufacturers that also oversee networks would fair if there was a fit standard in place. How would it impact the industry if any of them could not meet the standards?

I am doing a long crack repair at this moment on a Accord. After going over the repair with the customer, I pulled it in, and had a headache by the time I did.

DOT 459. "FIT" looks fine, but this thing is so cotton-pickin 'rippled' I just can't believe it.

Had I seen the massive distortions, I would have likely not sold the crack repair. Worst I may have ever seen.

Good point Mark 1. "Fit" is not the only criteria for sure to judge a windshield by.

If safety is the goal, any windshield, no matter how good the quality, can become unsafe in a matter of just minutes through the manner in which it is installed.

And, CCC....don't EVEN get me started on crash testing to prove equivalance.


OH, and BTW....customer returned, happy happy with the crack repair, and ASKED me, before I said a word, if I had noticed the distortions, and if I thought this could be causing her headaches!!!

I nodded and replied that it gave me one just bringing it into the shop.

Not sure what she will do, but they're going to find the paperwork for those that installed it, when her parents owned it, but it's been a year or two, she said.

That's kind of unusual for dot 459 from what i have seen of their product lately. I normally don't see much distortion with this dot #..

Very good questions L.W. & IRA. I would LOVE to see an article on this subject. It has been burning my brain lately just wondering WHO is monitoring the glass manufacturing companies and how often they are being audited for fabricating glass. How often do they test the integrity of their glass? How do we truly know they are creating glass that is holding up to government regulations. What or where can we find information on the government regulations/compliance rules they have to follow?

My guess is there is no exact "law" or regulations glass mfg's must adhere to...other than inner layers must be .030 thickness. Of course they will try to stick to machining tolerances for fit, and optical clearness. I believe percentage of reflectivity (tint) is also a government guideline or regulation, but other than these it's not food/beverage or the like so as long as OSHA regs are followed I would think there is no governing body that goes to a glass factory and audits the process. Even if so, how would Americans regulate foreign manufacturers?

Why they monitor themselves because they are soooo concerned with their quality. But you wonder do they truely care or do they just not give a darn.

I know Dow urethanes are proudly displaying AGRSS on their proof of purchase stickers. I would like to see manufacturers have to meet a guideline put forth by AGRSS. I would like to see a proof of purchase sticker much like those on urethane kits for the windshields we purchase that include the brand/date of manufacture/DOT#/manufacturers part #. If the windshield meets all AGRSS standards they should also include the AGRSS approved logo on the sticker and in the bug. It's the only way I can think of to document the difference between the good and the bad. I would think the quality manufacturers would like to separate themselves from the generic NAGS part#.

The companies and tolerance levels used below are for explanation purposes only.


As some one stated all OEM have what is considered an acceptable tolerance level, x
For example on a new model Ford Motor Company may allow the OEM glass supplier (Carlite) to supply product that has no more than a 2mm lift from the fixture.
PPG want to make the part as well. They buy three samples of Carlite Glass. It just so happens that those three samples are on the high end of what Ford Motor Company would accept on the assembly line. PPG has quality standards that allows a 1.5 mm lift from the fixture. You now have a product that that is possibly bent 3.5 mm out of the original Ford OEM spec. It may fit, but the Carlite fits better.
In comes XYG they are to cheap to buy the OEM Carlite sample so they copy a PPG.
The PPG sample is one 1.5 mm out of tolerance but still fits and is acceptable. XYG may have 2mm lift from fixture as there acceptable standard. They start producing w/s that are possibly 5.5 mm out of tolerance from the original Ford spec, and fit like crap.

The lesson is don’t copy a copy.

Who give's a rat's ass about AGRSS's standards? Hardly any of us, because you only need donate money to them to be "accepted",...nobody checks/verifies anything there. Any of us can/could/or won't be "certified" by that organization. (Our techs all exceed anything they cite as a standard.)

I have been employed in wholesaling and retailing glass, and it's incredibly rare to have poor fitting windshields, although it does occur. Sidelites with bonded moldings fit way more poorly, or the moldings are nowhere near OEM or acceptable, or tabs on doorglasses are glued on assbackward. Who monitors that? Us. Return the POS.

I like L.W.'s idea about the agrss stickers on glass. I think they should do this on all auto glass. It would allow some owners to rest better at night knowing that the glue and the glass and the procedures followed all meet the agrss .Good idea L.W.

I am an American stalwart (that means Patriot for those of you in Rio Linda), but FYG glass is OEM for Audi, (in Euroasia) never had a tolerance prob with that mfg. but have only installed around 50 of 'em.

Your right GLASSSGOD. Not giving a rat's ass about any kind of standards is how it is, has been, and I guess it always will be. Keep on keepin on. Now let's go trash talk the national chains and the networks and how to go about filing lawsuits. Maybe somebody else will fix it for us. That's how it is, has been, and I guess it always will be.

Here's part of the situation we all face:

Quote from very recent post:
"the only thing i financed was a truck. i was mobil only as well. i do flat as well as auto. flat has a much better margin. if you can get a credit card with a high limit you can pay your auto glass bil with it. usually you can get 1 or 2 % off if you pay buy the 10th of the month. just make sure you pay the card off every month. never pay interest. i was lucky and had a good relationship with an auto glass wholesaler so i was able to buy on credit right away. i started small so i never owed much. only bought what i realy needed." End quote.

The manufacturers/vendors will open anybody up, most likely same discount/prices we all are receiving. In my days when I was managing AGR dept, you had to have a physical location, and started with a small line of credit upon approval. Now it's anything goes.

You're right again GLASSSGOD. All the manufacturers have become the same. Their products are just NAGS part#'s anymore. Branding and quality means nothing to them. It's to bad they don't have any standards. They will stoop to any level just to be able to sell a piece of glass.
Just one more question. How many of you have actually seen how well a windshield fits a check fixture? I have only seen two comparisons and they were both from network providers. The PPG windshields fit pretty well although they checked several in their inventory before the demo. The other brand wasn't even close. I can't remember the part #'s but they were big movers at the time and large #'s of each manufacturers units were being installed.

Referencing GLASSGOD on the FYG comment; when I began working at this company the owner would not install anything except Pilk, LOF, PPG, and OEM, (Mopar, Carlite. etc.) but since the rebalance and the VERY deep discounts we began using FYG only for insurance companies requesting more than 15% off NAGS so we wouldn't lose all profit on the jobs, or for private pays who just want the best price. However like yourself we have not had any problems with it, no fit issues, no stresscracks, no waves or catseyes, a couple have had bent moldings on the GB or GT Y's but our auto glass manager checks all parts before hand so if there are any issues they are sent back and not installed, that goes for any manafacturer. I did not know they were OE to Audi, was it you said? Also did not know until CSR at Mygrant told us CMX is OE to Hummer's, and I don't know if it's OE, kinda figure it must be, but ULN is Toyota branded which Mygrant carries and it is very reasonably priced.

We replaced a Crown Vic w/s for a guy last summer who had worked for Pilkington in Ohio for 15 years he said. They employed glass cutters who cut all tempered by hand, which I thought was interesting. Since then water jet, optimizing, etc. has come into place. But he did mention they would recycle or plain toss out hundreds if not thousands of windshields (prototypes) they cut until tolerances were reached, per part number. I am sure it's much different now too. Was a neat conversation.

Crinamex has always been OEM for H2's...go look at 'em on a car lot if you wanna be sure. I was pretty surprised first one we did.

Quote from a industry mag about a year or so ago:
"China's largest auto glass mfg., the Fuyao Glass Industry Group, will supply w's's for Audi Group car production in Europe, according to a June 2 Asia Pulse report. Fuyao is currently the sole glass supplier for Audi's production in China." End quote

They can't suck too bad.....

Well XYG was installed on some of the 06 chevy models on the oem level. I couldnt believe it .