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I finally got an XYG from Pilkington. I was surprised, yes, I've read that it was happening, but I was surprised that it arrived because I had given specific instructions for them not to try.
So, with a nice (not) note, it's going back and another is coming from someone else.
Basically, I told them if I wanted to buy XYG, I would buy it direct at a better cotton-pickin' price, rather than go through them. Oh, and it was .027 thinner than the OE. Ya, like I'm gonna slap that baby in and bet my customer's life on it? Perhaps I could tell the parents that it saved them gas money because it made the car lighter, sorry it didn't hold the roof up during the rollover?
Shame on you Pilkington, stand up for the quality we've come to know from you for the last few decades that you built a global business on.
I've never had anything but problems with the XYG and FYG brands. I haven't had to put one in for awhile now. Its nice to go and set a windshield and have it be too short, not long enough or to watch it stress crack after touching urethane!
Only got pics of several stringers of bluegills and perch. Big - ass largemouth bent my rod under the boat and spit it back up at me. Had a blast, first vacation since 1999 when I left the glass distribution world.
Not only Pilkington, but PPG as well. But both will tell you they are concerned about the quality of their product. Mark I can't believe you just got 1 from them. I've been seeing this for sometime now.
Guys, all manufacturers have to out source to stay profitable. Stop grinding them for a better price on every part, and then they will not have to sell you a XYG part. The industry caused this not PPG, Pilkington, Mygrant, or Service. You know what they say don't hate the game hate the player (you).
You bring up another point that has helped this industry to take a nose dive. When John Doe can buy at the same price as everyone else his first day in business, there is a problem. I know this problem has been brought up before and i even see the wholesalers reasoning behind it.
The wholesalers need the extra cash flow just like the shops do! Their backs are up against the wall to turn inventory to keep pricing low. The end results are damaging to the faithful long time shops. They now have to pay fuel charges and help absorb across the board rate increases.
In my humble oppion this is not fair to long time customers and has created even more price detoiration in the market place. Now the faithful shops are forced to shop around for the best bargain with their buying power.
Maybe wholesalers should take a hard look at their pricing structures and consider a tiered pricing(or something simliar)to stop the downward trend.
I know know some of you will say that would be unfair trade practices on behalf of the wholesalers, but I will challenge anyone of you to prove it..
If there are any wholesalers listening, let us hear your oppion.
To Mark's point, a few years ago very few people wanted to pay for quality, it was all about price. When the big boys start to carry the alternate brands, everyone complains. It's tough to have it both ways.
In today's market with NAGS setting the benchmark, and lowering the list with each publication and insurance companies wanting greater and greater discounts, and 7% price increase THIS YEAR continuing to base service on "quality" parts is getting harder. Unless bankruptcy is your goal! We are still installing Pilk, PPG, LOF and some Mopar and Carlite, but I have to admit when I go online to order and I see that 15-40 dollar difference in those brands and XYG, CMX or even FYG it's getting harder to maintain our standard. We'll continue to try because of all of the loyal customers who keep coming back because they can count on that quality.
Glassgod (right) you are missing the point. The Insurance companys grind the Networks. The Networks grind the Glass Shops, and the Glass Shops grind the Wholesalers. Everyone has to stay profitable. That means Glass from China, and its here to stay. Everyone will be installing it. Sooner or later. Trust me I dont like either.
SG, please re-read my post that started this. I said I was surprised because I specifically told them I didn't want it.
I asked for, and expected to pay for, a more expensive part, which is what I sold my customer, because they asked for it, after I gave them the choices of what I would install into their sons vehicle.
I went to an OEM mfg to buy THEIR product, not a less expensive product from another mfg, and specifically told them to send me the more expensive OE mfg part, not to send me the less expensive part, yet they sent the XYG anyway. (Which gave me the opportunity to COMPARE it, BTW)
Shops may sell what they want. I choose to give my customer's the choice, based on price, quality, and the OEM reputation, so they decide what I will install in their car. (it's called disclosure)
THe neat part is, NOBODY else around here is telling the customer's of the difference between parts, so it's a great sales technique for us. It makes people ask themselves why nobody else told them of the differences of the glass. Agreed, some don't care and just want cheap. But more do care, and we LIKE those customers.
Speaking of 'those' customers, this one was a 'cash' customer, not an insured customer. The bill was paid out of Mrs. Smith's pocket when the work was done, and I guarantee we were not the cheapest.
OH...and we did charge extra for corrosion treatment because of the previous installation that was the cheapest, and made sure this one didn't leak like the last one did, too.
OH OH...that was the third one of 'those' customer's this week, that got a less expensive job 'last time'.
We have found that the quality minded customers also have the cash to pay the bill. What a coincidence, eh? I'll seek out and take those customers all day long!
Hawk: You referenced "CMX" in the same breath as XYG and FYG. I assume you are talking about Crinamex. You may not realize that Crinamex, part of the Vitro family, is a very large OE manufacturer. Maybe even more OE focused than they are on providing parts to the aftermarket. Take a look at a lot of the popular cars and trucks on the road and you will see the Crinamex logo in the bug. Dodge trucks and the PT Cruiser just to name a couple. They cut their production of aftermarket replacement parts quite drastically in the past year and their offering is pretty narrow now days. Regardless, they bend a good piece of glass. XYG on the other hand is hit and miss. Some parts are as good as any you can buy, others are junk.
PPG and Pilk/LOF are being forced to offer the Chinese brand for one reason and one reason only-price deterioration in the market place in regards to being competitive with the same folks they sell TL to..Mygrant, American, Bartlestone, Curved, etc...plus some are struggling getting product from their own sources competively to compete against Xinyi and Fuyou-so what would you do-go out of business??. Until the big boys figure out a way to bring parts to market that are made by their own manufacturing arms we will see them backfill their pipeline with lower cost parts. It is only a matter of time before we begin to see parts made in other parts of the globe that will be competitive with the Chinese manufactures..it may be a few years away but we all know that China is not the last frontier..there will be other places..the race is on as to who will be smart enough to build at these low cost locations...the glass business has evolved over the last 8 years or so to be less profitable than it was 20 years ago it is a fact of life on the retail side and on the wholesale side as well-it is interesting to read how many folks still believe in quality and brand recognition to run their business..we should drive this point home with the manufacuters and maybe we will begin to see more glass REALLY made by them!!!
If the OEM mfgs choose to supply an "A-line" of parts and a "K-brand" of parts, that's fine. Let the buyer choose.
But one thing that we'd better be paying attention to. This industry quotes FMVSS like it was the bible. This is dangerous in my opinion, and here's why:
FMVSS is ancient. They were written long before we had structurally installed WS and airbags bouncing off of them at over 150mph.
FMVSS does not apply to the AGR market, it applies to car mfgs. NHTSA does not and will not govern/enforce anything over the AGR market, and have said so in writing.
Car mfgs have exceeded FMVSS in design and mfg for at least 2 decades in many aspects, one of which is WS performance re: crash management and safety systems.
Car mfgs have been sued successfully while proving that they have exceeded FMVSS by as much as nearly TRIPLE. So where does this leave the glass industry using untested, unproven, unvalidated AM parts that 'claim' to 'meet or exceed FMVSS' a standard that does not even apply to them?
Out in the cold holding a HUGE liability bag.
I choose to use OEM mfg parts. At least I know that these mfgs have PASSED OEM crash testing and performance specs. If they choose to send out DIFFERENT products to people like me, when I bought their products in good faith to duplicate an OEM install as close as humanly possible, then SHAME ON THEM, not on me.
If one chooses to use AM parts, that have no proof of equivalance, IMHO you may be rolling the dice with your customer's safety and with your liability for doing so. WE as repair professionals are responsible to the driving public to do professional top quality repairs to their vehicles. If we choose to 'negotiate' with insurers behind the consumer's back without their knowledge over the price, and choose to use lower priced parts we cannot prove are equivalent in order to 'work within the insurer's approved pricing' we are stepping onto a slippery slope we may not be able to get back off of.
Now, do the insurers TELL US WHAT PARTS to install? Nope, they only speak of price. GEE I wonder why? How about you answer that one Hal?
Just my non legal honest opinion.
Now, two backglasses, two WS repairs, two windows, one regualtor fix, four orders, and only on two cups of coffee.....it's time for FOOTBALL!!!!! Everybody have a great weekend!
I agree with the choice aspect. I think if the wholesalers want to sell a "k-brand" and "the good stuff" then we as retailers should be given the option of purchasing each. Then when I want a quality part I know I'll need to scrape to get more $ for it, but at least I know I'm getting a good part. As it is now I have no choice, PPG sends whatever they have and the real horrible part is that I get no difference in my cost if they have a good one, or K-brand. That is where I think they fail, If you are going to charge me a net price then it better be worth a net price. That is where you can blame PPG or Pilk, or whoever. It is their fault, and it does make them money grubbing. If they gave the choice, and charged accordingly that would make them respectable.
I heard SAB (South African Breweries) now owns a good share of most w/s makers? Anyone else know anything about this? I know SAB has been a major player in the Euro markets, but what about North America?
I agree with Bubba and the others on the choice idea. The way I look at it is like going to the supermarket...you always have at least two brands of something...the BRAND and the Brand X. One sells for $5 the other for $2.50. If PPG and the others took this approach everyone would win. You'd have the choice of buying the part you wanted to install. The problem is that PPG (and others) are farming out the making of their products to these Brand X companies and trying to pass it off as a PPG part. I installed a PPG in a Mazda Protege the other day...buy was it a made in China special. Looked like crap and fit even worse.
Anyone ever try to buy from Guardian on a wholesale level? I've been putting in their stuff for a few weeks now and so far haven't had any problems with it. I noticed on their website that they have a wholesale program. I have no idea what their prices would be like or what kind of delivery options they have. Just a thought.
I liked your post. I have already spent 3 days trying to find a good source to get a replacement windshield. I have a Toyota RAV4 2008 that I want to source the glass manufacturer, so when I go to a glass shop, I can ask for that same glass, assuming is a better quality. However, my glass cracked with a cardboard box being pressure against it. I could not believe it was so fragile. Am I doing right at sourcing the same manufacturer or are there better qualities than the one manufactured for Toyota?
Some glass shops tell me that I should get an aftermarket glass. Any advise is greatly appreciated.