I just bought this car and the previous owner cut out an ugly 3 inch square from the plastic liner at the bottom left of the glass for a state inspection sticker. Can I just remove the liner entirely? And how?

You are probably better off getting a new windshield for this. You can take the inner liner off. We have done this with the glass on a cradle. In a car is going to be difficult. Check the glass for pits and damage. Most cars this old will probably need a new w/shield. The inner shield glasses have not been available for 10-12 years. HTH

Replace it depending on what part of the county your in you should be able to get a new one between $175 -$250 without the liner.

This is a 75,000 mile car and the outside of the glass is fine so I don't want to spend money on replacing it when I don't need to. Can a single edge razor blade remove most of the liner? Does it leave hard to remove residue like window tint?

When we removed a liner on one of these we scored the liner(single edge blade) in 2-3 inch horizontal strips. Then used the blade to peel up the strips. It came off fairly easy without any residue. But this was a new windshield on a cradle. Who knows what will happen after 11 years and in a car? It may just peel off or you may break the glass trying. If you are going to do this yourself go for it. If you are going to pay someone to take it off, get a new glass.

I understand that in your mind that this windshield is fine and it does not need a new one. Remember the people responding are not profiting from you buying a new windshield because chances are it will not be from any of them.

Here is my opinion about what you are asking. The windshield in question was manufactured and installed by GM with this innlayer as part of the glass. The innerlayer has been damaged on just about all of them were over time. Therefore to fix the damage correctly it should be replaced with the windshield that does not have an inner layer. We replaced hundreds of these in the mid 80's for GM and they never requested for us to attempt to remove the innerlayer and reuse a windshield. So I recommend replacing the glass with the correct replacment part just as GM did while the cars were still under warranty.
Yes the inner layer can be removed, but I cannot answer if the innerlayer can be removed without causing safety issues or or damage to the glass because General Motors never had us attempt this they replaced the damaged part.

Hope this helps you understand that while it may not be the answer you were hoping for it is the best one I can offer.

Thanks for the reply but it makes no sense to replace a perfectly fine w/s if the plastic liner can be removed. GM never requested for you to attempt to remove the innerlayer and reuse a windshield because it would probably cost more in labor.

Your statement: I recommend replacing the glass with the correct replacement part just as GM did while the cars were still under warranty, is fine for a one or two year old car worth $15,000 or $20,000 but doesn't make much economic sense on a 20+ year old $1,000 or $2,000 value vehicle.

And your statement: Yes the inner layer can be removed, but I cannot answer if the innerlayer can be removed without causing safety issues or or damage to the glass. What about aftermarket window tint that needs to be removed? Nobody would recommend replacing a window instead of removing the plastic tint material.

Anyway, what was the problem with the plastic that caused GM to replace all those W/S's? How come after 20 years it's still fine in this car? Didn't GM know many states required annual inspection stickers on the W/S and that they would have to scraped off each year?

Look, get over the 3 inch cut out. It did not bother the other owner.

Evan if ther innerlayer can be removed, at what risk? Cutting your self with a razor blade? Scratching the glass? Not getting all the residue off? This is NOT like tint, this was applied using heat and pressure. This liner is designerd to bond/adhere to the glass.

It is apparrant you do not wish hear the advice and answer to your question given to you by these fine professionals.

If you choose to go ahead and remove the inner layer you will wind up regretting it, and you will wind up changoing the windshield any way!

I apologize for attempting to answer your question, but with your last response I see I completely misunderstood your situation. You have a "perfectly fine windshield" so my recommendation for a perfectly fine windshield is to leave it as it is. Since there is nothing wrong with it why change it? Sorry for the confusion.

Enjoy your perfect car with 75,000 miles on it. It sounds perfect for you.

OK now that we both got that off our chest.

You asked:
"Anyway, what was the problem with the plastic that caused GM to replace all those W/S's? How come after 20 years it's still fine in this car? Didn't GM know many states required annual inspection stickers on the W/S and that they would have to scraped off each year?"

The INNEERSHIELD as it is referred by the industry was supposed to increase passenger protection by creating a barrier between the vehilces passengers and the glass. IF something very large hit the glass it kept glass from going all over the passenger compartment or if a persons head hit the glass the innershield was supposed to be able to reduce injury by creating an exta barrier. The draw back was that it was very easily damaged. In other words trying to clean it or attaching anything to it would damage the plastic innerlayer. GM had special cleaning instructions, but they almost always still ended up damaged. Glass distributors sold them "as is" no returns allowed due to the ease of damage to the innerlayer. Soon they were discontinued because this high priced luxury item was a flop that the consumer did not see the benefits of and seen many problems with. I am sure some really high paid engineer from GM made a big bonus with this invention, but never thought about how many items people attach to their windshield which in most peoples eyes(not yours) would ruin the windshield.

I hope you understand I cannot give you a satisfactory answer to "Anyway, what was the problem with the plastic that caused GM to replace all those W/S's?" because your next statment is "after 20 years it's still fine in this car", yet in the picture you provide I see damage in that corner where the innerlayer has been cut away and would probably see damage elsewhere if I observed the whole windshield. In my mind these questions and statements contradict each other. Sorry I cannot help you with that question?

As far as the other issues such as removing and the safety of it. Windshields have to meet NHTSA(National Highway Traffic Safety Administration), as well as FMVSS(Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Since I did not manufacture that windshield I cannot tell you if it will or will not pass if the innerlayer is removed, because it was manufactured with that innerlayer and tested with that innerlayer. In addition neither GM or the windshield manufacture have stated that windshield part number would pass without the innershield so that decisiion is up to you as the vehicle owner. As a repair facility the NHTSA Act of 1966 states that "A repair facility cannot render a safety device inoperable." A windshield is classified as a safety device and in addition the innershield was added as a safety feature. So for that reason I would not recommend removing it and assume it is still safe, but that is a decision you will need to make.

Good luck in your quest for the answers you are looking for.

Well stated SBOK

So did any other car maker besides GM try this concept?

I ,m sorry I started all this I just thought after being in this industry for over 20 years that replacing the w/s would be a little easier than cutting a finger off or cutting the headliner or dash. I took another look at the picture and have notice the moulding is faded and sun dried if that don't bother you than why worry about the cut out.

Now as far as the safety issue we install these things for a living so I think we all are qualified to give our professional opinion and if you dont like what we say then maybe you should call GM and ask them what they think and waste someone elses time.

SBOK - I AGREE WITH YOU 100%

BMW is bringing this back. They call it anti-spalling windshields. DuPont is providing the film.
http://www2.dupont.com/Automotive/en_US/applications/bodyExt/Glass.html

I have a uncle on the design team at dupont he says that the new liner they developed was togo between the glass not on the inside of the windshield but some smart guy thought it better to try it the other way .

Good summary SBOK, I would add only "heaven help you if you were a smoker" with one of those Innershield windshields. I recall they were marketed as "Anti-Lacerative" windshields.

I also recall the release/disclosure forms we had customers sign when switching the cars back to conventional windshields, along with the memo copies from GM stating the part was no longer available when they were discontinued, due to the potential liability issues of our business "defeating a safety device" later on down the road. We have a similar form for those rare occasions when a customer insists on driving a car with deployed airbags after we replace a windshield, but before the airbags are replaced.

I also recall the sighs of relief from the wholesalers when the Innershields were discontinued, because no one ever figured out a way to handle, deliver, box, or ship one without scratch or scuff damage.

I agree with the recommendations of just changing the windshield, from both a financially practical standpoint, and the safety standpoint. If this car is in the excellent condition the owner states, it justifies the expense of a new non-innerlayer windshield, or, if the owner disagrees, I suggest placing a new state park sticker, or something similar, in that now "designated sticker spot" where the damage to the Innerlayer exists. Problem solved, either way.

Lee, I found the procedure you described for peeling off the innerlayer quite interesting, but have to ask, what prompted you to have the occasion to try such a thing? I can't imagine why, and am just curious. Also, your dealings with movie people has to be a fun diversion from the normal daily routine of the biz!

PPG used to throw these away by the crate full in the late 80's. It seemed like a waste of a good glass at the time. We did a few but it was more trouble than it was worth. If these come out again we are all going to be busy. Didn't this inner shield originate in France with Saint Gobain?

That inner layer was the most insainse thing i have ever seem. Consumers are not smart enuff to clean window film properly and your going to put something in front of them they can scratch up!! Good job on developing that...

I was able to peel off the liner as previously described in 2-3 hours. Not too hard to do and it looks a lot better. The only problem is the liner gave off a really funky smell so that now the interior of the car smells like ripe cheese. Hopefully it will wear off or I might try wiping the glass down with solvent or alcohol.

It seems to me that the glass on these inner-shield windshields was thinner than a normal windshield, because they depended on the inner-shield for the added safety. Wouldn't removing the inner-shield make the windshield less safe simply by making it much thinner? I seem to remember the glass part of these windshields was considerably thinner than a normal windshield.

YES G MAN I THINK YOURE CORRECT BUT THIS GUY DONT CARE HE SAVED A FEW HUNDRED BUCKS AND WHEN HE GETS IN TO A WRECK AND THE WINDSHIELD DOESNT PERFORM PROPERLY THAN THE GLASS INDUSTRY WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH 20/20 AND NEWS 9 AND ALL THE PUBLICATION BAD MOUTH US BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS GOOD LUCK KID

HE made a decision which I guess as the car owner he is entitled to, but I wonder about two things.

If Someone is injured as a passenger in the vehicle and it is proven that removing the INNERLAYER may have related to the injuries then would he be liable?

Also what if he sells the car, should he have to disclose the modifications he has made and or change the windshield?

Just something for him to think about.

Thats probably the DW 1012 GB. Replace it with a DW 1071 GB. Used to work with a wholesale co. in the late 80's when those came out. Sent cases back to mnfctr. as defects. Concept is: No cuts when you smack the w/s. In reality, it didn't work worth a crap.The thickness is the same. Inside lami is a about 1/2 inch from edge so it wouldn't interfere with the urethane.