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Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Not making any money, vehicles getting old; need to be replaced, don't know if we'll be here next month or not.

Am I the only one?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Oh, we are getting pretty busy, but I'm not convinced it is enough.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

I am going for S.S. almost the same pay and no 3rd party taking out the profit. Worst year ever.in the last 40.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

I guess it is just us then..... but I don't believe that.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

stop whining already!

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

I've been working my guys to death but our numbers sure don't show it. It's sickening. Where the heck is CAGGS????????? Haven't heard a word about them in a LONG LONG time. Their website show's no updates. I know life is busy but "We're Waiting"!!!!!

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

If you are off of Lynx, I don`t understand why you are not making a profit. I am!

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Depends on the size of your shop and number of employees. If you are a small shop you might not be feeling the effects as bad but mid to large shops such as mine you definitely are. Our average reimbursement went from $650 to $395 in the last year. Our volume is actually up from last year but we are in the red. It is amazing when looking at graphs and financials that the dramatic down turn took place March 05 a direct result of NAGS!! Numbers don't lie, many have said quit whining about NAGS. The people that are saying this are the bottom feeders that have and still are dependent on the networks. Once again the insurance industry took the rebalance and used it in their favor, it is ridiculous that as an industry we continue to ignore this fact.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Just started sleeping at night-we are starting to get more work, but not really so much in auto, more in general glass

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

stick and stay.. its bound to pay

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Shopowner: I would like to know specifically how you are getting paid better by being off Lynx. We are not on Lynx either, but they pay us the network rates anyway.

We have tried direct billing, etc., but it all ends up going through Lynx anyway and they pay us 20% off, etc.

Not enough to make a profit.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Bill through neon. At least its a chance of better things.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

I agree with all of you,I just get sick of all the whining,It does not fix anything.sorry

Re: Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

i'm not so sure about neon anymore. been using them for at least a year and things are going down hill. anybody have any alternatives to neon?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

John are you calling you orders in?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

TM -

If you can't maintain decent margins at $400/part, then perhaps your company needs to go on a diet and trim a bunch of fat?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB, we run almost 200 employees. The one man shops as I presume you are maybe profitable at these levels because of zero overhead. You mentioned in another string that you would love to get 20% off and that receiving full list would be a "dream". People like you are the root of the problem, how many networks do you belong to?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB do you even run a shop? or maybe you work for the ins ind. where the REAL fat is!!!!Yep,, get REAL!

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Shopownerx:

Yes, we set up the claim through Lynx and then we deny their pricing.

Last fall we tried not setting up the claim and just faxing in our invoices to Lynx, but they take forever to get paid (if they do get paid) and they still paid at their rates.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB:

$400 a part? Are you kidding? Our average total invoice (including deductible) for the State Farm A rates (10% off, $100 flat) is under $300.

How do you come up with $400 a part?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

My comment was in response to a previous post. If you were to read the prior post you would have understood (maybe) the context of my comment. $400/job is adequate compensation for my company and that's about what we average.

My company operates in multiple markets and we do not have most of the issues I see so much whining about here on this "poor me" forum.

It's all the blaming, finger pointing and attacks that will keep the complainers right were they are; right were they belong.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

OK, JB, I'm game.

Right where they are, right where they belong.....

As opposed to what, exactly?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Exactly? Okay.

As opposed to:
Accepting the facts of life and working with things as they are while at the same time working through proper channels to affect change. That doesn't mean sueing our insurance customers (which is an excercise in futility), or constantly complaining about how unfair it all is.

News flash: Life ain't fair.

I love this industry. Been at it for 10 years. My company does well by emphasizing quality, safety, and service and keeping our pricing out of the gutter. We don't want every job; just the profitable ones. We are not uniquely qualified. But we are determined, persistent, and highly motivated. We refuse to install non-OE junk and can justify our above-average pricing to the customer and insurance companies (who pay us just fine).

Bottom line: Things ain't perfect. But a first time visitor to this forum wuold think the industry is doomed. That's not the case, at least for us, and seem to be steadily improving all the time.

Sorry if I seem harsh. I just have very little tolerance for complainers who don't get off their butts and do something of substance to change things. The people that complain the loudest are the same people that refuse to suit up and show up at industry functions, put their money where their mouth is and participate in what, unfortunately, has become a very political process.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB Looks like your shop is located in a rural area.
Try operating in NY or a high density area. Your company would decline dramaticaly in theses fierce competition areas. OEM means nothing, customer loyalty is almost non existant and price is the determing factor. So have some patience and be thankful for the area you are in.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Thanks for the reply JB.

I think it's great that you stand on quality, and I hope many read your post. I hope that others see that there are plenty of us that fight for honest and fair pricing for quality, not for the cheapest stuff that could be slapped into the customers car at the lowest possible price, especially when the customer does not understand or even know the difference until mabey it's too late.

You're right, life ain't fair, but this is America, for the most part, it's supposed to be. And yes, too many complain and poke holes in the air with their fingers, but don't actually do anything.

One other question, in your reply, did you mean to say insurance customers, or insured customers?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Nope, Sglass. We operate in major markets and deal with the Safelite steering bs, Glass America passing out Wal-Mart gift cards to insurance agents, DT' shady tactics and low-balling, and all the other "unfair" stuff that everyone is forced to deal with. We don't bury our heads in the sand over it, but we don't focus on that bs either. We focus on how to do a better job of marketing, gain another tenth of market share, and stay lean and mean.

Mark2 - I said what I meant - insurance customers. I see posts all the time about folks sueing insurance companies. That's okay, I guess. We've just never had the inclination or time to do so. We generally get paid right. And when we do get short-paid, it's not the stuff of law suits. It's the stuff of making it up on the next one.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB:

I am still trying to figure out how you are getting $400/job from insurance companies at their offered rates these days.

We see most in the mid $200's (Farmers @ 30% off, $43.50/hr, etc.). Even at D and E rates they only go up $50/job or so, not enough to get you to $400.

Can you explain this a little more?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB, With regard to short pays, I disagree with you. short pays should be collected. It's no different than stealing. If we let ins co's and tpa's get away with short pays they only do it more. Also how do you make it up on the next one? Money is like time, once gone it's gone. Do you charge that much more for the next job because of not getting fully paid on the previous one? sounds inconsistant to me. Why should one customer make up for you choosing to take a loss on a different job? hmmm

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB, if you think we are a bunch of whiners and do nothing about it then go join the insurance company discussion boards and get off this one. You are definitely one of the only people that are happy with reimbursement rates. Yes, short paying it is like stealing and I for one stand up for what I think is fair and I will fight harder than anyone out there. We are constantly suing insurance companies for what I feel is fair and we are very successful at it. The insurance companies defense is one that uses examples of low ballers such as yourself. Like I said before people like you are the root of the problem, if you are happy with the reimbursements then that means you are billing at the ridiculously low rates set forth by the networks. I asked you once before how many networks do you belong to?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB I find your postings self conflicting. You say alot but have nothing to back it up with. I have to discount your opinions as a person out of touch with reality.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

So-o typical.

When you don't like the message, crucify the messenger.

Enjoy your lawsuits and your whine-fest, gentlemen!

I've got a PROFITABLE business to run.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

LOL JB I gotta hand it to you you are the epitome of "if you can't dazzle then with your brains, baffle them with your BS"

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB, I don't think anyone is crucifying the messenger, they're asking for more information.

I happened to LIKE your message, or most of it, especially the parts about standing on quality, but also wonder how you do what you say you are doing.

I agree that short pays are stealing and cannot be allowed. Do you not go after Joe Smith that has nothing to do with insurance if you extend credit to him, and he short pays his bill? If you do, what's the difference?

But you also said you concentrate on the profitable jobs, so I assume that you pick and choose which ones you tell the networks "NO" to? If you have that advantage and customer base, I applaud your tactics, and would like to hear more because it means you have THEM playing to YOUR rules, rather than the other way around.

What we see too often is networks saying one thing on the phone, but the check does not match, as in short paid. I speak with many shops, and know that I am not the only one this happens to. I assume, judging by the contacts, that it is something that happens much more to non network shops, as a rule. We educate customers and give them a choice of OEM or AM, and the price is different, and let them choose, and let the network explain how they arrive at the payment structures they set. (which is frequently VERY funny, but it puts the monkey on the insurer's back to explain why they are cheap)

I have to admit that "making it up on the next one" makes me nervous, but I have no idea what you mean until you give me more information.

So, basically, give us some details, please. And to everyone else, chill out, and let's give JB a chance to answer when he has time. Let's not jsut assume that he's an insurance company or "low baller" posting to make us all paranoid. We are filling in assumptions without a lot of info from JB's short posts.

He may have some good ideas that some of us haven't thought of yet. Which is the point of this board, sharing information.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Good post, Mark2.

JB, it sounds like you are managing to do what we want to do. But we get short paid all the time. Farmers is the worst. The claim says X% off NAGS, and then they short pay us. And even the claim rate isn't anywhere near your $400/job.

Let's hear some details, JB!

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Did some checking.
Our average invoice billed for the last quarter of 2005 was in the range I spoke of (a little bit less). That includes a good percentage of multi-part jobs (vandalism during the holidays). Of that average, we were paid 94% of full invoice amount. Short-paid? Yes. Enough to spend lot's of time sueing over? No. Was the amount short-paid considerable? Yes. I don't like any better than any of the rest of you. Do we service the networks? Yes. Do we get work from them? Hell yes! Do I want to bite the hand that feeds us? Hell no! Do we suck it up, move on to the next job and take care of the customer? That's exactly what we do.
This will surely raise the ire of many on this forum, but that's okay. You asked. It works for us. We don't low-ball and try to undercut the competition. We charge what's fair for the quality of service that we provide, which is considerably better than most of what I see these days (lick 'em & stick 'em). We've spent a small fortune on marketing over the years. But it's paid off over time. Some people seem to think: "I've got tools and a truck with a magnetic sign on the door, Oh, boy! I'm a company now". Sorry, as most of you know, it just ain't that easy.
It seems that it just kills some folks to know that there are independents that are doing okay in this business. That's a shame. There were many years that I wondered if I'd make it another year. So, I know the frustrations expressed in this forum all too well.
Don't think I'll be in Forbes magazine any time soon, but the bills get paid these days and I'm thankful for it. It could all change tomorrow.
I wish all professional AGR folks much success.
Happy trails.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

Thanks for being so candid JB.

Using your 6% figure, which I think many here would nearly kill to have that low of a short pay percentage, and transferring that to %/quantity of jobs rather than %/dollars per jobs:

If there are 6 million replacements per year, then 6% of those, 360,000 are being done for free because shops have to "suck it up" as you said.

That's what I want to see changed. Theft. You, nor anyone, should have to be "sucking it up" because someone is sucking 6% from your bottom line gross.

If this is whining, then I'm guilty, and rather proud to say so. But I am doing something about it. Anything and everything I can.

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB you are the Insurance Co.'s dream. A person who will work as cheap as they dictate & let them take an extra 6% off the bill. You are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. You still haven't given a part # & ins, discount formula to back your $400.00 part claim. Do you even own a shop?

Re: Can't Sleep At Night, Constant Stress Indigestion

JB,

I hope you are not in my area...you are the type of smart business person that I don't want to compete with! Your comments should be studied by all of us who read this forum. Kudos.

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