Hal,
We are going to be filing against State Auto in MN arbitration for your low reimbursement rates. Just out of curiosity how are you and other insurer's going to justify lowering reimbursements when I bring in letters from each of the wholesalers showing this price increase and fuel cost surcharge. The insurance industry including you Hal have gone too far in accepting biased pricing information from Safelite. Your previous post, where you stated that you plan it as a pass on from us to you has made me file an arbitration claim against State Auto.

To All MN Shops: you can be successful in filing arbitration claims for short pays. It is easy to do and easy to win. If you wish to try it, file against State Auto first.

RC....Hal cannot comment on pending arbitration/legal cases, but you make good points.

RC-

Thanks for your notice. I will watch for your filing and look forward to meeting you face to face.

However, I am not sure you understood my previous post. I indicated that my plan was to accept the 3% increase [if documented] as a pass thru expense to me
--not reducing your margin by 3%.

Best wishes-

Hal will you talk with Safelite they told me they know nothing of a 3% increase for State Auto.

Hal, what the heck do you mean DOCUMENTED? Have you not read the statements from ALL the major suppliers? They are listed right there in front of you on Glassbytes webpage. Do you think we are making it up?And how about the rising fuel and surcharges? Are we joking about that? Better yet, you have the numbers I know you do,,how much has insurance premiums risen over the last 1 or 2 years????? how about taxes, heat, phones, elect.,advertising, office supplies, ect. ect. ect. COME ON HAL! If you can understand why a price increase is due, why whishy wash it with bs? Smart shops will be raising thier rates real soon or be closing thier doors. Only the lame, weak minded, shouldn't be in Business for themselves, led by thier noses, will keep taking the declining pricing.

Good news Hal, I just talked to 3 shops in MN who informed me that they are going to file arbitration claims in against State Auto. I have filed 11 this year against others and have not had a single one end unfavorably. I will let this board know the outcome or better yet maybe you should. I for one am tired of State Auto's ridiculously low prices that are completely dictated by Safelite.

RC-
Do what you think is right! It is your business decision. However, I have some concerns that you may not know what the State Auto pricing offer really is!

Also, I suspect that arbitration losses won't be seen on this board. Remember too that should you not prevail, you may be required to pick up the insurer's expenses!

I am pleased to report that I have found many shops willing to accept State Auto pricing!

Sounds like you're trying to intimidate him, Hal. You will always find some moron willing to take your pricing, but is it really in the best interest of your policy holder? I love your smugness, Hal. It just means you will be easier to take down .

What is the State Auto pricing Hal. Please post it on the board. Does this include the 3% increase you agreed to except from the recent wholesale increase?

Hal,
The reason you have shops agreeing to your pricing is that the Safelite reps are out hustling the network. You will always find a few willing to accept the pricing model that Safelite derived for you and the others, they are virtually the same. If this is going to be your defense remember that this is a breach of contract claim, therefore the burden of proof is on me to prove my invoice is fair not that the price you are paying is fair. It is hard if not impossible to argue this when there are 24 other MN inusrers showing my price is within their range based on the whole market not a selected few Safelite network shops. Along with the 24 insurance carriers, is the MN DOC survey, along with the bulletin they issued last year. All of these prove my price is fair, which is substantially higher than what you are paying. We are getting screwed by you and the other Safelite affiliated insurance companies, and this is why any shop filing an arbitration claim against State Auto will win. You have been sticking it to us for years, it is now time to stick it Hal.

Ummmm....pardon me, but I think you all missed something Hal said:

" However, I have some concerns that you may not know what the State Auto pricing offer really is! "

Hal, what does this mean? Do you think that Safelite is not telling shops what "you", as in State Auto, set for a fair and reasonable price? Do you mean to tell us that you have some concerns that Safelite is marking the bill up in the middle?

If that's what you meant to say, well, it's about time you got a whiff of the coffee, or what's floating in it, I think.

If not, what exactly did you mean to say with that statement?

I am satisfied that my t.p.a. [Safelite] is not skimming short pays. [We use outside audits to confirm this.] So this really is not an issue.

I reviewed pricing offers of other insurers [names were blackened out] and confirmed that my pricing is not the most aggressive pricing, but probably one of the least aggressive programs.

I don't think it appropriate to publish pricing here, but I would respond to your e-mail request.

Best wishes,

WE ALL NEED TO DO A COMMERCIAL LIKE DITECH. ONLY IT SHOULD SAY "LOST ANOTHER ONE TO SAFELITE" PROGRESSIVE AND DIRECT GENERAL JUST STEERED TWO REPLACEMENTS TO SAFELITE. HERE IN THE STATE OF LOUISIANA THE LAW STATES THAT "YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE ANY GLASS REPLACEMENT/ REPAIR SHOP YOU WANT ONLY THESE SAFELITE INS. COS. AREN'T TELLING THE CUSTOMER THAT.

Ok, thanks Hal.

BUT:

"If not, what exactly did you mean to say with that statement?"

So what did you mean by saying you have concerns that shops may not know....????

Hal once again my cost for glass has increased and you said that shops would not have to eat that cost. When can i expect the new pricing to be faxed from Safelite?

Mabey it's just me, but I swear I hear dance music playing........

Everyone HAL still does not understand. He preseumes that since 80% of his previous vendors agree to his new O&A that they think the pricing is "fair and reasonable". But he has never understood that most shops sign an O&A not becuse the pricing is "fair and reasonable" but because they fear losing jobs if they do NOT sign it.

He still ignores this difference, that shops do not sign O&A's because of pricing concerns, they sign then out of fear.

The only solution is to dump networks, pass laws that allow you to bill direct and be paid directly by the ins. co., start lawsuits against TPA's for price fixing (especially SGC, almost all of their agreements have the same pricing structure, talk about price fixing?), and start keeping accurate paperwork when work is steered and stolen from your shop.

Good luck everyone.

CCC, you are mistaken.

Hal understands perfectly.

And he is choosing to ignore the difference.

I especially enjoyed his comment about how 'losses' in arbitration would never be mentioned on this board.

I think that was amusing, and goes to my point, that he is choosing to ignore all these posts that keep telling him what he continues to ignore.

I'll try again just for fun: Hal, would these people BE complaining if they thought 'fair and reasonable' was 'fair and reasonable'? So, in my opinion, you hear constantly from shops that are not happy with the pricing, and you are hearing more frequently from shops that are doing something about it.

Ironically, it's MN that bothers insurers the most, where case law cites that quality of glass, materials, and installers must be taken into account when determining 'fair and reasonable'.

So, Hal, what are your determinations based on, exactly? AM or OEM parts? Cheap or high quality adhesives? Rookie or trained installers?

Let the dance music begin.......

Why can't a lawsuit be filed against the networks for price fixing then? Since we are forced to accept the TPA's pricing or not get work or be able to bill directly, wouldn't this constitute price fixing? What are the laws on price fixing?

Is anyone "forced" to sign an O&A?

Of course no one is 'forced' to sign any agreements, nor to participate in any programs.

They are designed to allow open access, competition, quality and customer service at competitive prices.

No one is forcing anything, you make the business decisions to participate, or not.

On the other hand, no one is forcing you to breathe, either, right? It's just tougher when someone limits your access to air if you don't agree to the terms of those restricting it.

You're right Mark, but everyone needs to stop complaining about the problems are start doing something about them. I have sadi it before in this forum -NAGS is not the biggest problem in the industry, they are just the beginning. Accepting an offer that doesn't yield favorable profits is a bigger problem. Everyone who doesn't agree with what the TPA's are offering should not sign the agreement. I'd bet that is 90% of the retailers. That will get some attention. Complaining to Hal on line isn't going to accomplish anything.

You are right ST. If enough people say no things will change quickly.

The problem is, not enough of the glass shop are up to par on the depth of the problems in our industry. The are glass shops out there that are just so into getting the job. Doing it for cost plus. They have no idea what they are doing to the industry. They don't read the stuff happening on this board or in any glass magazines. They are just working away and could care less about the whoo's of the industry.
There is not enough rallying going on in our industry to make other glass shop owners know we need their help. This is why it is so important to ask your distributors to help organize meetings in your area with other glass shop owners.
If you notice, there is only a handfull of people talking on this forum. The word needs to spread. We need every shop owners help to solve our industries problems. The big guys aren't gonna do it for us.
You all know what needs to be done. It's time to stop procrastanating!