Why does NAGS have so much **** power in this industry? Why can't glass be priced according to production, transportation, warehouse and installation costs just like cars, groceries, sunglasses etc. etc.

i'm not sure you even have to ask why nags is so powerful. they are propped up by the insurance industry, and by selling bogus price lists quarterly.

IMO, I believe that NAGS and whoever heads the insurance "industry" are connected. ~Western Wishes~

We find a suggested list price helpful so that we can audit and process invoices. NAGS provides such a tool.

If a tool does not work I dont use it, and NAGS is like a taiwan tool set. We have had enough .

NAGS is "owned" by Mitchell International.. Mitchell's estimating products , as their website states, are used by over 80% of the insurance companys in the United States. Hmmmmm.... you make your own conclusions...

Hal: I understand the advantages of having such a system in place. The problem is, I do not see how the NAGS list price accurately reflects the true cost of the product and allows for reasonable margin (at both the distributor level and retailer level). In addition, I would like to remind everyone that there has been other options presented that didn't appear to have been even considered. To this I ask, why?

Here's an portion of a letter we issued last year when NAGS "rebalanced"...

"We do not understand the methodology of the NAGS rebalancing pricing and we stand with a significantly large group within the industry who have voiced concerns to NAGS regarding the execution of their plan. To date, we have not received a satisfactory explanation. Although we see the need to correct pricing in this industry, the February 28th NAGS calculator does not have an understandable relationship to our purchasing price.

As is the case with several other large distributors, AG Distributors has decided to continue with it’s previous/existing pricing methodology and will not be making a change based on the February 28, 2005 NAGS Winter Benchmark Calculator. As we always have, we will price our products based on actual cost and market values and will continue to closely monitor the market conditions. It is our intention to re-evaluate our prices within 60 days to determine what, if any, changes are necessary. However, we have no intention to ever price our stock items off of NAGS List Price."

NAGS NEW PRICING DOES NOT WORK...PERIOD...
SOME INSURANCE COMPANIES USE THE NEW, SOME THE OLD, SOME WHO KNOWS. IT HAS BECOME DIFFICULT TO EVEN FIND OUT WHAT EACH PRICE COSTS WITHOUT LOOKING ON THE INTERNET. ALL PRICING SHOULD BE THE SAME AND CONSISTENT. I HOPE SOMEONE IS LISTENING TO THE GROUP,
THE AUTO GLASS MARKET IS IN A SERIOUS DOWNWARD SPIRAL.

So set your own price. Understand your cost, establish what you need to make and what your market allows, and charge that price.

I still do not understand how so many of us allow someone from a different company to set our companies prices. Isn't it just plain nuts to think that a business owner would let someone outside his comapny determine his price structure and what he is worth? I think it is.

I think the new NAGS is working!

Granted, there are a few vocal holdouts to adopting the new NAGS--but overall I am receiving few complaints! To me this is a fair indicator that it new NAGS is working.

Hal, I have to admit that I've secretly been a fan of yours for the sheer fact that you have the guts to participate in this forum but I have to say that I think you've lost your mind making comments like this last one. Good luck.

Hal its working for you... Not for the glass shops you and all the other insurance company lackies are just about one thing, and thats greed. I own a shop here and have 4 techs, did just over 1million in business last year and I have to cut health benifits because we can't afford them anymore. You people don't care what you are doing to the working class people in this country. The insurance industry is the biggest form of organised crime in the US. Geico employees just got %30 bonuses that was an average of 2 months salary... where did that money come from??? it came from the glass shops and body shops that are now struggling to survive on the rates they try and force down everyones throat. And what did geico get for giving that %30 bonus? They just tried to buy everyone who works there, they figure for %30 most people will sell their integrity, and unfortunatley they are right in most cases. Hal you are a perfect example, 99% of people on this forum are saying the NAGS rebalance is unfair and not working, yet you say it is working fine for everyone, now you either don't listen or have the same opinion as the coporate owned media in this country...If you keep telling people a lie, people will eventually except it as truth.

Hal,
It seems to have be a useful tool for the insurance company after the rebalance. What about the pre-rebalance? All I heard then by the insurance industry is how ridiculous NAGS was. NAGS now works for the ins. industry and networks because you have taken advantage of it. It is not a tool when it does not represent a reflection of cost. There is NO wholesaler in the country that prices based upon rebalance it is all done off of pre-rebalance.

Hal, Are you being a troll, or just dense? Nobody, that isnt forced to, uses NAGS anymore.

Hal.. every wholesaler/distributor in the USA is a "vocal holdout", or maybe you are not aware that none of them use NAGS list prices, just insurance companies. PPG does not use NAGS, but their LYNX subsidiary does...explain that one Hal. I agree with webmaster...that was basically the stupidest thing you've ever written on here, and I have lost any respect for any future and past posts from you.

Hal,

When you have a pricing discussion with your TPA, I know that it goes like this:

Hal: What was was our total indemnity payout last quarter?

TPA: $300,000

Hal: How many claims?

TPA: 1500

Hal: What was my average cost per claim?

TPA: $200

Hal: How much will the next NAGS price adjustment affect my numbers?

TPA: 10%, but we will adjust the discounts to offset this so you won't feel the effects. We have figured out the discounts we need to implement to make the numbers work. We also have an announcement on State Auto's letterhead with your name on the bottom and we just need you to sign it. The new pricing will be loaded in our system on the effective date of the change and we will audit all of the invoices to make sure everyone is in compliance.

Hal: Thanks guys. By the way, what are the new discounts just in case someone asks? "New NAGS" please because thats what everyone is using right?

Hal,

If you are keeping track, I am complaining!!!!!!!!!!
The rebalancing was suppose to bring the glass and labor prices in line with the big discounts we were giving(just like the rebalancing prior). Here is how it did work: Insurance companies took the most popular parts across the country and figured them revenue neutral, never was any consideration given to specific markets.
My average income for my top twenty movers dropped by $20.00 or more. Then the new prices came out, the newer parts were priced and all the popular part prices dropped and the insurance companies want bigger discounts. Never is any thought given to our costs such as fuel,labor and other rising costs. I would like to start a network for consumers that pay their insurance premiums, here is how that would work. The consumer would buy insurance from you, but send me the payment, then I would call other companies and find the fair and reasonable market price and send you that amount, if it is short, you have to agree to the amount anyway. Part two: I would also sell insurance and tell the consumer I can't find your address or phone # and ask them if they just wanted to buy insurance from me. Part three: I would send your invoice back to you to fix. I hope you get the picture.

I for one am now spending more time on the phone with my customers. I must look up our cost on ALL parts before I can even give an estimate. Then figure out what the insurance is willing to pay if billing thru insurance. See if the job is even worth taking. Every aspect of a job from the start of the conversation to invoicing the bill is taking up at least 20% more of my time. This whole rebalance has not been cost effective for my time nor cost of doing business.
Glad to hear it's working for you and your insurance buddies Hal. Guess it's time for us to recieve a rate increase after all these years! What do you say about that Hal? Wouldn't that be a bit fair....

Guys (and Gals), you can't complain about the amount your getting paid if you sign off and agreed to the pricing. If you really do not agree with what the TPA's are offering you, then don't accept! Don't sign the O&A. Talking has gotten us nowhere. It's obvious when people like Hal, who I thought was actually listening to what was being said in this forum, are not getting it. How about showing them action? Tell the TPA's to take a hike. We have allowed them to take control by not taking action!

It complaining falls on deaf ears what use is it ?
The TPA's insulate the insurer from any communication with glass shops through the dictation of pricing. If this was any other venue they would arrest them all , but since its the almighty insurance company lets let them run willy nilly all over the glass industry .

i remember hearing around 1978 that nags was an improvement to what they had for pricing prior to that.

in a sense, it seems that nags has created a dependent "society" so to speak, they have done the thinking for the glass industry for so many years, that people have stopped thinking. in the past, the pendulum may have swung to the glass side, the more dependency, the more the pendulum swings to the opposite side.

technology has also played a part, from being required to get a fax machine, we have now evolved to purchasing software and quarterly updates. None of which actually produce more income, they just cost money.

i think the moral to be learned is to never become dependent upon anything, and maybe to always be searching for an alternative revenue stream.

A new ad for free E support I saw said it was paid for by ad $ only catch was a $150.00 yearly NAGS lic. fee. I can not not get myself to pay that any more than paying Cheeplite to process my invoices. Nag is killing their golden goose by not being neutral, using fake numbers and causing small windshield specialty to be a thing of the past . I an doing more to cause the paper work to go through the ins. co. maybe if enough complaints and paper work goes through their offices they will find it is not cost effective to have 3rd party no their dirty work.

Gentlefolk-

You have many good suggestions & ideas--but what alternative can you offer to NAGS?

We really need a reliable 'suggested retail price' to make our insurance programs work. Suggestions regarding alternatives are appreciated.

I am serious about complaints! I post my true name and e-mail but receive few actual complaints.

Here is my problem [trying to be polite & considerate]--I do want to pay a fair price for goods and services, but do not care to subsidize inefficient operations.

If Safelite, Diamond/Triumph, Guardian, etc. are functioning well using new NAGS--is it unreasonable to expect other shops to function with a similar system. I think not. My program doesn't hold all shops to the same billing/discount standards--but does set a threshold using NAGS.

Best wishes-

DOES ANYONE ELSE THINK HAL SHOULD BE HEARING FROM MORE OF US???? HE IS REAL EASY TO CONTACT. ALSO NAGS COULD WORK IF SHOPS WOULD USE IT IN IT'S ENTIRETY. NAGS SETS A BASE KIT AT $56.00 YET TPA'S AND INS CO'S ALIKE DICTATE A DISCOUNT FROM IT. IF NAGS WAS USE COMPLETELY WITH NO DISCOUNTING AND FAIR MARK-UPS AND THEN THE BIGGEST PART, IF WE COULD SET OUR LABOR PRICES TO WHAT IT TAKES TO RUN OUR BUSINESS PROPERLY I COULD THEN SEE NAGS AS A WORKING TOOL. IS IT NAGS FAULT SO MANY SHOPS ALLOW THE TPA'S AND INS CO'S TO USE IT TO THIER ADVANTAGE ONLY? WE ALL KNOW THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVE TO FIGHT THEM TO USE NAGS FOR OUR BENIFIT! HAL I AM COMPLAINING TO YOU,,,, NAGS DOES NOT WORK FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS. MAINLY, TPA'S AND THE INS CO'S USE THE TOOL FOR THIER GAIN AND ONLY USE IT PARTIALLY NOT TOTALLY. AGAIN HAL I AM TELLING YOU NAGS DOES WORK FOR ME!

XXX - you might want to re-read the last sentence of your post. You're sending mixed messages.

I just wish someone would explain PPG's position of not accepting NAGS on the distribution level, but embracing it on the retail/insurance level. We all know the logical reasons, but an official explanation from them would be great; although they don't have the courage to explain themselves.

OOOPPPS THE WORD "NOT " IS MISSING FROM MY LAST SENTENCE,, THANK YOU WEBMASTER. " HAL, NAGS DOES NOT REPEAT NOT WORK FOR ME!!!!!

XXX please drop the CAPS, its hard to read your posts.
Thanks

Ok m I'll try to do this better. And Glasssgod you have a great point, I sure wish I knew why PPG doesn't use nags rebalanced benckmark yet lynx does!hmmm

Glasssgod;that's easy.They SELL to us from nags at the list/net price,then BUY it back from us at list/net minus their discounts.Kinda like double dipping.

To bad for the guy that has to drive 120 miles to get to a Cheeplite or Diamond shop when they bankrupt the small out in the rural little town shops. Maybe they will go under first who knows. Wind shields don't sell with the mall-ward market plan.

BECAUSE NAGS IS THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN! AS FOR PPG, TRY CORNERING ONE OF THOSE GUYS FOR SOME ANSWERS AND WATCH THEM FANCY DANCE THEIR WAY OUT OF IT. BY THE WAY - HOW CAN NAGS LIST A PART (MOLDINGS) WITH NAGS PART #S, HAVE A LIST PRICE BUT WHEN YOU SELECT IT --- POOF! IT'S NOT THERE. BUT YOU NEED IT TO DO THE JOB??? HOW CAN PPG LIST AN INTERCHANGE FOR A PART - ONLY SELL THAT PART - BUT LYNX WON'T RECOGNIZE THAT PART FOR THE VEHICLE? --- HOW DOES LYNX JUSTIFY THE EXPENSE OF CORRECTING AN INVOICE FOR $.01 ? BOTH THEIR EXPENSES & OURS? ---- SORRY I GUESS I WENT OFF --- AT LEAST I CAUGHT MYSELF