Not a mention of Countdown in sight...I have a feeling Jason won't be pleased. Can't say I am either. Oh well.



What better way to start off 2012 than digging out your old school attire, 60s flairs, tie-dye t-shirts, scrunchie socks, grungy flannelettes and tuning in to all the retro goodness rage has installed for you. Tune in this Satuday for episodes of "Hit Scene”, “Get To Know” “This Day Tonight” and loads of old school retro clips!

Catch retro highlights from 10:00am Saturday morning on ABC1 then catch the full show from 11:33pm on Saturday night.



We will be playing a wide range of retro clips that will surely get you groovin' and movin' to all of your old time favourite hits!

Featuring a huge variety of flashbacks and highlights from the previous decades, boy, have we got something in store for every music lover in town!

We'll take you all the way back to 1967 to episodes of 'Be Our Guest' featuring the always memorable live performance by Python Lee Jackson & the unforgettable soulful sounds of Jeff St. John & The ID. Sitar maestro, Ravi Shankar, will also feature in an inspirational interview on an episode of 'Get To Know' and we will be be playing numerous episodes of the all time favourite series ‘Hit Scene’, hosted by Dick Williams, where it's year of 1969 will be unearthed on screen once again.

Other retro clips which will surely please you retro fans include performances from Telex, Manhattan Transfer, The Easybeats, The Velvet Underground and Ian Dury & The Blockheads.

Be sure to tune in this Saturday to see what we have dug out from our archives. There'll undoubedtly be a favourite tune or a live performance from your all-time artist of yours that will surely rock your retro socks off!

'This Day Tonight'? Oh dear, it's not even music:


This Day Tonight (commonly abbreviated as “TDT”) was an Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) current affairs program of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
[edit] Overview

When TDT premiered in 1967 it was the first regular nightly current affairs program on Australian TV, and it extended ABC’s award-winning coverage of current affairs, which had begun in the early 1960s with its flagship weekly program Four Corners.

Rage had better play some Countdown this Saturday or I'll be SERIOUSLY T'd-off!

That blurb doesn't inspire confidence sadly!

As much as I love countdown, my expectations of rage over the last few years hasn't been much, as as it goes on, my opinion of rage is pretty much down the gutter. It's a case of if they do show a complete countdown episode intact, oh well, what a miracle.

...and that's also not to mention that they still keep screwing up the aspect ratio on many of their videos, many of the videos on their new years eve party mix were half off my screen, what kind of idiots do they employ at rage.

I sort of have a feeling of dejavu here.

Hmmmm, my guess is they're going to do it decade-by-decade this year. Seems the focus of "week 1" is pre-Countdown (even though it's really week 2...but lets not beat that wasp's nest with a stick).

Can I suggest we don't get too agitated yet. I predict all the 60s early 70s stuff will be this weekend (which isn't a bad thing at all)...then we'll probably get the next 2 weeks of '70s/'80s Countdown & Rock Arena, which is when rage will have the opportunity to knock our socks off...lets give them the chance to do so

Scary though to think that the last week will probably be dedicated exclusively to 90s/00s pure vomit...but I'm guessing that's what's going to happen so best we prepare ourselves for it. Shrugs, we can't do anything about it...and we have to accept that rage *has* to cater to its audience share that grew up in the '90s & for whom the '90s is the equivalent of our '70s & '80s. Poor things.

Not happy. As abbaluke said, we have to have confidence that we will get some glory in the next couple of weeks. Keep in mind too, that rage played 13 Countdown episodes in 2010 and 17 episodes in 2011. Let's hope we do a few more better this year. I guess we'll need Countdown marathons the next couple of weeks to get there!

Yes, true, rage does have to cater to an audience with diverse tastes. Although they have improved greatly over the last 5 or so years, broadening their palate beyond the usual JJJ/grunge/'alternative' genre to include some retro pop/dance clips, the last few retro months themselves haven't been too crash hot, IMO... although some of the Saturday morning clips were good.

I too sense that they may be doing a decade per week format this January. Personally I much prefer the non-themed/no particular format retro months, with a variety of stuff.

Looks like from now on in future years, we will be writing on the rage message board, no video clips just music shows in retro month.

I hate to be a pessimist, but I wouldn't be that surprised if the rest of the month pans out like this:

Jan 14: 70's theme, more GTK, some repeated Countdowns from the 70's, maybe an episode of Flashez

Jan 21: 80's theme, more 1980 or mediocre 1982 Countdowns , maybe a repeat/edited Countdown thrown in for good measure, a Rock Arena that nobody has asked for which features some obscure indie Australian band live in the studio, some common 80's clips thrown in between, no Countdown Revolution/Factory/later episodes of Countdown as some of us have been asking for.

Jan 28: 90's/00's theme - Big Day Out live clips from the 90's (maybe a 1992 Big Day Out special, which I believe was the first, as it is now 20 years ago - with Nirvana footage/clips galore), Recovery & 10:30 slot "highlights" (sic) in between.

Game over.


And if you thought that wasn't good enough, next year during retro month they will repeat the entire 1993 JJJ Hottest 100 one Saturday night, as it will mark 20 years since there was an annual Hottest 100, instead of a Hottest 100 'of all time'. Plus a 'bonus' extra weekend of 90's/00's stuff, as the JJJ Hottest 100 repeat eats into precious Recovery/10:30 Slot time. Also, it's another 4 weekend January, so there goes half of retro month 2013. By retro month 2014, the Abbott government will have made severe cuts to the ABC, rendering retro month and possibly rage itself untenable.


OK, maybe that's a 'worst case scenario' prediction, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it happens.

... ...

Although I look forward to the 60s retro stuff - TDD sounds very promising - the lack of Countdowns is annoying to say the least. Should be at least one per week ideally more.
Hoping for a good amount of Flashez this year but won't get my hopes up.

Last year I put up a timing list of Rage's retro programming each week which was quite accurate. It looked like this (Example):

11.57pm Countdown
12.43am Flashez

etc etc etc..

This turned out to be quite a help for everyone recording retro season so if you could still use it for this year I'd be glad to do the same thing regardless of what's programmed. It's more in-depth than Rage's general 12.30am this, 1.00am this, 1.30am this etc..

That would be fantastic if you could do that again Frankster, that was a big help last year.

Hope a lot of Countdowns are played this year - considering over 200 eps still remain to be aired they should for sure.

NOT HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I OFFICIALLY give up on rage. I am not bothering with them anymore. I am absolutely DISGUSTED by their lack of Countdown especially after what has happened to Molly.

rage S U C K ... I officially HATE THEM!

If they have a full night of Hitscene, GTK, plus the unaired Hit Parade hopefully along with what I assume may be a report on music from This Day Tonight and move on to Countdown next week then I think that is fair enough if they give all eras an even run.

60's and 70's fans have not had much of a go over the years. There was an episode of This Day Tonight that was hosted by Molly Meldrum in relation to drugs so I guess that it may be that episode considering Molly has been in the news recently.

I have always advocated an even amount of all eras relative to what exists despite most of it being outside of my own sphere of interest. I primarily put suggestions forward for 80's content, which is no different to anyone else as I rarely see individuals make considered requests covering anything other than their own personal interests.

I did have a few debates with people who previously had just said play 60's/70's/80's/90's in weekly lots as that lacks thought and over simplifies the situation. It wouldn't work due to the amount of footage from the various eras that is available, unless you were to pad out the 60's with common clips that get shown all year round.

However I would think the following is the fairest way to show all eras with regard to relative amount and variety of footage available:

Week 1 1955-1974 with mainly Hitscene and GTK as very little else other than common clips exist. It covers 20 years but outside of the 1969-72 period there is very little in the ABC archives of Channel 2 shows.

Week 2 1975-1984 with 5 Countdowns, a Rock Arena (Sharon O'Neill episode hopefully) and some Flashez. Covers 10 years but again there is not much for the late 70's as many tapes got wiped and all the surviving Countdowns from that era have already been aired on Rage.

Week 3 1985-1992 With Countdown, Rock Arena, Beatbox, Between The Teeth, The Factory and Countdown Revolution. Covers 8 years but has generally not been explored greatly in retro.

Week 4 1993-2001 with Recovery, Studio 22, Hesters Shed and whatever else was on at that time. I don't see 90's as Retro but Rage do so I guess that's all that matters there.

So if Rage were to follow a format similar to that then I guess it would be fairest to all the different viewers' tastes.

The only concern would be that Countdown is clearly the most popular show and retro month actually started off as Countdown month due to the persistence of Countdown fans to plead for episodes to be shown. So all other shows are actually encroaching onto territory established by Countdown fans.

All this angst could be solved if the ABC just decided to put shows - even one a week - in the dead zone when ABC 2 & 3 shut down.

Bring back Jonathan Shire as ABC Manager, and then he can clean the entire rage staff out, that in it self would be worth a party.

Nathan mate, well said, you hit the knocker right on the nail.



Personally I would love it if they could show this countdown, a lot of great clips/songs, and from a awesomely great period of countdown. It has the Rockmelons very first hit, which is very hard to find.

Info from Troy Walters 1970s countdown site.

7th April 1985 (457) (55 minutes) [information in incorrect order]

Host - Molly Meldrum

Studio performances:
Cats Under Pressure - Let Me Be

Music videos:
Kids In The Kitchen - Something That You Said (music video)
Rockmelons - Time Out (For Serious Fun) (music video)
Lin Buckfield/James Reyne - R.O.C.K. Rock (music video)
Phil Collins - Sussudio (music video) (E)
Phil Collins - One More Night (music video)
Julian Lennon - Say You're Wrong (music video)
King - Love & Pride (music video)
Stephen Duffy - Kiss Me (music video)
Nik Kershaw - Wide Boy (music video)
Tom Petty - Don't Come Around Here No More (music video) (E)
Amadeus Montage (Symphony 29 - Mozart) (music video)
Bruce Springsteen - I'm On Fire (music video) (E)
Frankie Goes To Hollywood - Welcome To The Dome (music video)

Countdown Music & Video Awards Nominations:
Dragon - Speak No Evil (music video) (E)
Mental As Anything - You're So Strong (music video) (E)
Dynamic Hepnotics - Gotta Be Wrong (music video) (E)
Models - Barbados (music video) (E)

Humdrum:
UK Top 5:
US Top 5:
Australian Top 5:

Interviews:
Molly interviews Phil Collins

National Top 10:
10 - Bruce Springsteen - Born In The USA (music video) (E)
9 - Don Henley - Boys Of Summer (music video) (E)
8 - Billy Ocean - Loverboy (music video) (E)
7 - Murray Head - One Night In Bangkok (music video) (E)
6 - Madonna - Material Girl (music video) (E)
5 - Dead Or Alive - You Spin Me Round (music video) (E)
4 - Pointer Sisters - Neutron Dance (music video) (E)
3 - Jim Diamond - I Should Have Known Better (music video) (E)
2 - Tears For Fears - Shout (music video) (E)
1 - USA For Africa - We Are The World (music video)

rage made a big mistake in the 90's showing all the 70's Countdown episodes. They should have spread it out over the years and there would still be more 70's episodes to screen today. That way the majority of viewers would be happy and it would still be called Countdown month and not retro month. Too many views these days (on the message board) on what content should be played have ruined it for the Countdown fans, who were the ones who got Countdown back on rage in the first place. I was one of them who would constantly ring up the rage line in 1992 and ask them to repeat Countdown episodes.

Yes Michael, it should be called Countdown month like it used to be and not stupid Retro Months!... I to used to call the rage line, bless.... :-) ah, those were the days :-(

Let us wait and see the final playlists for all 4 weeks before giving up on the Rage team altogether guys!!

I remember the same problems with a couple of playlists early in the retro season both 2 years ago and last year before everything suddenly came good. Patience would be a good virtue here.

Who has said anything about certain weeks being devoted to certain eras at all?

What is certain is there will be ample Countdown to satisfy everyone by the end of Week 4 this year.

What seems to be happening now in Retro Season is the Rage team opting for a bigger variety of material.

Whilst no-one wants to see the great Countdown tradition fade away too much, at the end of the day the bulk of airtime will always be devoted to this flagship music show in Australias history - the way it should be.

By the way, none of the mentioned 1960's shows for this Fridays line-up run for more than 25 minutes - and 7 hours is a lot of airtime to fill in - I think everyone needs to calm down a bit and play a "wait and see" game before casting harsh judgement on the Rage team. There are many people who will be thrilled at seeing some 1969 Hitscenes, as well as Be Our Guest and these other archival gems. Count me in as one of them. The only thing that worries me a bit about Be Our Guest and This Day Tonight is that they are not music shows but rather variety shows with a few music acts thrown in. Maybe they are just showing the musical performances from these shows. Although Be Our Guest is so awful it will be worth watching just to see a young Jackie Weaver amongst the cast regulars. Whichever way it pans out, it does not amount to much airtime I can assure you all.

And obviously I am equally hoping for quite a lot of the requested Countdowns that have come from many of our regulars in here - there are 4 weeks and I am positive we will see something. Please stay positive -keep the faith guys!!

I have to agree Luke and Brett. It's hard to place a judgment on something without having even seen a playlist yet.

Last year the first few weeks had some ordinary items in them - week 1 repeated the 10th anniversary Countdown yet again plus Kinks, Rolling Stones, Roy Orbison and 10:30 Slot - but by the end we had actually gotten about 17 Countdowns, even if a number were repeats.

Granted there were 5 weeks last year but I will remain optimistic we will get some good stuff.

The 90's were good with the amount of Countdown shown on Rage but they also overly concentrated on the 70's episodes to the extent that the Sherbet episode and Iggy Pop were shown 4 times each and every time I saw them yet again I would be spewing they did not show an unaired 80's show instead. All up there were not that many 80's episodes shown compared to what we have gotten in the last 10 years.

I have not been a fan of any of the 'themed' retro months of recent times, i.e.:

2009 - Saturday morning: play #1 hits from a particular era - most of these were quite common clips.

2010 - start Saturday night with an hour+ long live performance = boring start to retro, have to wait longer for the good stuff to air when watching live. Playing clips from the Countdown top 10 in between episodes - again, many of these clips were very common, and several were repeated on consecutive weeks. Heavy focus on particular years (1980 and 1982) with Countdown episodes.

2011 - again, heavy focus on particular years with Countdown.


I've no doubt some of the footage shown on Rage this weekend will be interesting... but I'm not happy with the idea of it taking up a full episode, which it appears to, based on the blurb. I would rather they spread it out across the 4 weeks.


As for waiting to see what rage may bedazzle us with for the rest of retro month, I think it's important to start off with a bang/great episode, to set the mood for retro month, as we've had to wait 11 months for this. To begin with a relative fizzer of an episode is disappointing.

On re-reading this:

60s flairs (sic) = 60s/early 70s = Jan 7.

tie-dye t-shirts = 70s = Jan 14.

scrunchie socks = 80s = Jan 21.

grungy flannelettes = 90s grunge special = Jan 28.


I hope I'm wrong...

I will wait and see what rage delivers over the next 4 weeks before I make the call to comment on the rage message board.

Unfortunately Rage has a youth focus. That means an emphasis on very left of centre JJJ-type stuff from the past ten years. The moderator on the Rage messageboard has often said that the only reason they brought in Retro month in the early 1990s due to the lack of new release videos issued during January. I'm not optimistic about Retro Month this year with more crap like Recovery likely to feature. Still, I expected Countdown to feature more prominently this year due to Molly's recent tumble.

Unfortunately your opening sentence is somewhat true. Come to think of it - can anyone name even one music show in the last 20 years that does not have that all-important "youth focus" - for everyone over the age of around 40 = you are already dead according to our programmers.

No problem, will do :-)

Yeah, I hope so too..I'm just hoping they've left it out of the blurb by mistake and we'll actually get a couple on saturday night when the playlists are released.

OMG am I right in reading, hearing and learning that no "Countdown" episode is to be aired this first retro week Jan 7. That would be tragic and a waste of what only looks like 4 weeks rather than 5 weeks of retro show programming like we have had in the past this year. That aside I am always generally pleased to see other retro shows played from 60s, 70s & 80s but as has been mentioned let's not shift the focus away from "Countdown" as there are still at least 200 or so shows we have yet to be aired. I would preferably like at least 2 or 3 "Countdown each Sun in retro month however if "Rage" aren't going to air as many why not one whole week of "Countdown" at least, I would be much more satisfied with that if this is how it has to be. Like Brett2 and a few others here have mentioned let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. "Rage" could generally surprise all of us. Here's hoping.

In defense of "Rage" I have to say at least the last 2 years or so I have been generally pretty satisfied with their efforts but a week without "Countdown" not a good move especially for all of us devoted "Countdown" fans who requested it all along and there are many of us. I love the show that I even created a facebook fanpage & You Tube channel so those of us don't have to wait no more for the month of Jan and of course Jason's wonderful efforts with his website here and the official Countdown page if it is still in existence. Please feel free to post anytime as any input is always welcome. I would love to see the "GTK" ep 296 approx 15 minutes with "Tymepiece and actress Belinda Giblin chatting about a short movie "Sacrifice" have searched everywhere for info on this film although there is prob buckleys of that happening. Still waiting for the '81 "Countdown" guest host James Reyne & music performance of "Tears" by Debbie Byrne and the 1987 "Countdown" with guest host Jenny Morris to name a couple or so things. I would also love a complete "National Music Awards" show from 1975 / 1976 as they played a Renee Geyer clip from it couple a years back. I'm sure whatever they play will be exciting and bring back heaps of memories but please let's not forget about "Countdown" it is in my view still the best of all the music shows we have seen in Australian tv music history.

More blurb up now on the Rage website:

Saturday morning Special - 10.00am - 11.00am

Get your retro fix this Saturday morning as rage dusts off killer clips by artists including Telex, Sister Sledge, Fox, Ian Dury, Skyhooks, Roy Orbison, Sam & Dave, Herman’s Hermits and more.


Saturday night 7th January

Start time 23:30pm
show me
Dig out your flares folk, rage is travelling back in time has a full night of retro fun in store for you!

Tune in for episodes of Hit Scene, Get To Know , This Day Tonight and more from the 60s as well as loads of old school retro clips by Telex, Manhattan Transfer, The Easybeats, The Velvet Underground and Ian Dury & The Blockheads and many more.



Yep, looks like largely a 60's week, with a little 70's thrown in. Again, no mention of Countdown.

Let me guess:

Sister Sledge - the clip will either be the 90's remix of 'We Are Family', or 'He's The Greatest Dancer' - both of which have aired multiple times over the last few years.

Fox - S-S-S Single Bed, not so bad if it's the full clip this time. But still, it's been on rage before.

Ian Dury - 'Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick' or 'I Wanna Be Straight'.

Skyhooks - 'Livin In the 70s' or 'Horror Movie' - both been on Rage many times.

The Easybeats - another airing of 'Friday On My Mind', just what we need!

The Velvet Underground - that live 'Venus In Furs' clip from the 80s/90s that gets a regular airing.


Yawn.

People on the rage forum think that I in particular have a problem with rage playing 60s this weekend.

This is NOT the case. I have a problem with the fact that rage goes for almost 7 hours and after all the 60s and some 70s we are being feed RETRO MUSIC VIDEOS!

Why can't rage play a Countdown which goes for about 55 minutes then by all means, play 60s and 70s for 3 hours or so this weekend and then another Countdown and some Beat Box highlights or a Rock Arena.

They are SO stubborn with their themes, they really get on my nerves!!!

I guess we will get an idea tomorrow when the playlist comes out but from the general description it appears that they may play it in eras. They do mention a few clips from Telex, Ian Dury and Manhattan Transfer which I remember from 1979 so not sure what that will be.

I hope they only play clips on the Saturday morning though as it is the ABC music shows that are the great interest, but again we will find out tomorrow. The exception would be if they bring out some of those storage tapes. The focus as always should remain on Countdown.

The themes idea appears a little divisive but I quite like it. If they have pre-determined to show a certain amount of each era then I am happy for them to show it all together in those eras. If the last night is to be 90's then I can just avoid that night altogether and know that the first three nights will be interesting. It's better than sitting through Recovery waiting for a Countdown at 5:30am.

Hopefully whatever Countdown is to be shown won't be repeated, that's my biggest disappointment each year.

I totally agree with the music clips. Even the rare ones that I would really like to see that they get off storage tapes should be played on Saturday morning. As ghostwriter said - we can watch the clips any time on YouTube, it's Countdown and Rock Arena that we can't.

I will take heart in a response that mod gave to CJ in one post where they said:
Hi CJ, please don't worry we will be playing plenty of Countdowns this retro month!

I hope my idea of plenty is the same as theirs.

As far as themes go, I try to use it to advantage. When they started doing that around 2008 I started to propose my suggestions in theme format and I felt like I virtually got to program rage on the first night in 2009 when I suggested a Christmas theme and got the 4 unaired Christmas Countdowns played. I got a Rock Arena aired in Rage's 20th anniversary as I suggested a Rock Arena that had aired exactly 20 years earlier to the day. A little lateral thinking can actually get it to work in your favour although have struck out more times than I care to remember as well, it's just a case of move on and think of another theme.

Are you ghostrider at rage?

True, the theme for X-Mas Countdown's did INDEED work a few years ago. It was BRILLIANT!

Guru, I am NOT Ghostrider, Ghostrider is my friend Maryanne who is equally as P I S S E D off as I am.
She has her own mind and get's as upset as I do with rage's LACK of anything this January so far!!!

She comes over to my house on most weekend in January and we watch Countdown's together with out mountains of food. rage is depriving us all of a good time in January, B A S T A R D S !!!

Re-reading the blurb again, what sounds even WORSE about this weekend's rage is that Saturday morning's 10-11 slot looks like it's merely 'previewing' clips that will be shown AGAIN on the Saturday night! What an UTTER WASTE! They could have at least pulled out some rare stuff that wasn't going to be screened again the following night. Sometimes rage really have no idea.

rage are SHOCKERS!... rage could have even played an episode of Countdown in Saturday morning in that time slot. They are so predictable and absolutely LAZY!!!

Can't they at least get out some MEGA RARE video's like on the last Wild Card!!!

^ I swear that they must put their newbie/work experience skeletal staff on during January over the last few years, when the main rage team are all on annual leave. How else can you explain the idiocy?!

In my opinion, anything after 1987 shouldn't be considered as Retro. Fancy adding Destiny's Child in that playlist! Somethings wrong here.

Was good to see APOLLONIA 6 as I haven't seen that clip since the 80's.

I seriously hope they don't repeat clips in the morning and again at night - surely that's just for new releases although some GP choices get that treatment too.

I'm fairly certain they won't do that but if they did I am equally sure I will let them know I am disappointed. Again, I think I will wait for the playlists to be posted before examining whether a spleen needs to be vented.

When you consider GTK segments are basically just short clips and there were so many suggested then it would be a real waste of retro time to repeat something on the same day rather than explore the depths of GTK.



Retro is a silly word anyhow for Rage as it is just a title in January. The Rage crew consider anything older than 10 years is valid to play in January so it doesn't really matter what we think Retro means as it has no relation to the term in a dictionary. Anything pre 2001 is therefore possible but we would hope that they are a little discerning in their choices.

Basically I am expecting a lot of Hitscene and GTK this week and a lot of Countdown in the next 2 weeks. If that is the case then I am happy although Week 4 wouldn't fill me with too much enthusiasm if that pattern emerges as I never did quite join the grungy flanelette brigade.

If the first 3 weeks turn out as I think then I can accept Week 4 being what it may. On the whole Rage do a good job and it's not easy trying to appease so many varied tastes.

Retro is a relative term. However I agree with you and although I like mid 90s brit pop for retro month it should be no later then 1987. I can tolerate CR ..just..but Recovery

Hi everyone,

Still waiting on Rage's playlists so I can put up the data for the individual timings as I did last year as Rage tend to just group things together in half-hours. As soon as I become aware of them I'll start a seperate thread.

I too like a lot of 90's stuff, but mostly dance stuff or tracks by British non-girl band/boy band acts. I generally don't like grunge (other than a handful of tracks), but like some of the 'alternative'/JJJ-type stuff (mainly from '97-98) except the pub rock Australian acts. However, Rage have always acted as though 90's = grunge/JJJ, so I don't have a lot of faith that their 90's week (assuming they're devoting a week to a particular decade this retro month) will be much chop. Also, they play that kind of 'music' all year, and have done since the 90's... so I don't see the need to re-visit it in retro month, because it's what they always play anyway.

Guru Bob & Brett (2),

My prayers were answered when i made those Hitscene requests from 1969 a few months back.

Will see if they show that Hit Parade episode within the next 3 weeks.

I'd like see the unaired Countdown episodes for the rest of the month to pay tribute to our dear Molly. He deserves it.

i too would love to get hold of the tymepiece interview about the film sacrifice by keith salvat as i was the bass player all those years ago
we also did some songs on gtk as well but i cant seem to find any of them
darcy