The first poster has so many GOOD points, the second poster has NO IDEA!
Date/Time 07 Jan 2011 12:51:09am
Subject Re: Not enough Countdown
I do not get why ABC staff given eleven months to prepare keep on serving up the same old slop. Surely finding 15-20 countdown epidsodes from the archives once a year is not something that requires a lot of effort. But let me guess you probably do not care what you show - hence repeating Psuedo Echo clips (in the same order) twice within a two year period..
THIS PERSON HERE IS TALKING C R A P!
Author TheSheik154 ®
Date/Time 07 Jan 2011 1:29:34pm
Subject Re: Not enough Countdown
Actually, they don't have "eleven months to prepare" - though a lot of people here would be blissfully unaware, rage does actually go to air for the rest of the year as well. Plus there's 11 hours worth of programming on Friday nights to put together in addition to the retro nights. And most of the Countdown episodes in the archives were destroyed during the 90s, so finding 15-20 fresh ones each year may indeed be an effort. As for repeated episodes; retro month's been going since 1993, so some people wouldn't have ssen them before. Indeed, some people may not have even been born when some of them were broadcast. And there is an audience to cater to beyond the half dozen or so people who post on the messageboard. Anyway, it looks like we get four episodes this week, so I'll say it (since no-one else will) - THANK YOU tongue
PS. I'm not an insider, and no money changed hands...
There are literally HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of Countdown episodes that still exist from the 80s at the ABC!
Can you guys get him straight on this please!
I have just given The uninformed Sheik154 my 2 cents worth, although that reply will probably be buried somewhere until next Monday unless they update the Message Board one more time.
Dearie me, seems someone's got their things in a twist - the latest post from Sheik154 in the Rage forum:
OK, I stand corrected However, there may still be valid reasons for playing repeats. Maybe some of the episodes were damaged or not in the correct format for broadcast. Maybe there's copyright issues with some of them. Maybe rage have received requests for specific episodes. Maybe not even rage themselves are as rage-obsessed as some of their viewers, so they might not even remember that some of them are repeats (plus there were staff changes a couple of years ago). Maybe they believed you when you said you wouldn't be watching anyway because of the watermark. Or, maybe some of them just weren't very good (It IS a possibility, after all). Anyway, 3 of this week's are brand new, plus I remember watching the Xanadu one in the 90's, so it hasn't been played for a while (though if it's been shown since I'm sure I'll be corrected). The point still stands that rage has about 850,000 viewers, about 6 of whom actually post on the messageboard, so they do have a broader audience to cater to.
The Rage Moderator's response:
Thanks Sheik154. You're right, there are many reasons why we may repeat an episode as you mention, none the less being that, if something hasn't been played in over a decade and it's a great episode, then there would be a lot of people who missed out the other time/s (maybe because they weren't even born yet!) who would enjoy it.
rage tries very hard to play as many good and broadcast quality 'new' retro shows as we can possibly find time to locate and watch. 'Back in the day' when rage started retro month, there was no record kept that current staff can find of what was played, so that makes it very difficult sometimes for us to see what has and hasn't been on going back before our current library extends. We also keep databases with everyone’s suggestions and cross check with lists that have been slowly made useing info from the guest book of what has already been played.
Three weeks left and we've still got a lot to show so hoping everyone enjoys what's coming up!
Very spirited defence from the Moderator and it sounds as if that 1980 Xanadu episode IS being played after all....although we won't know for sure until tomorrow night. Sheik154 seems remarkably well informed for a 'casual viewer'......
What a load of F U C K I N G T O S S...
No.1. Anyone born after 1993 or 1994 would generally have ZERO interest in COUNTDOWN to begin with!
No.2. rage's excuse of the whole rage didn't keep info of what they played in January is B U L L S H I T. There is a rage reruns section on my site which starts at 1993 and goes till 2005. And GURU has listed on numerous occasions what has been played!
No.3 Shiek seems to be a not so real Countdown fan. Because if they are they wouldn't be on the side of repeats! I think ANOTHER hox person from the ABC if you ask me! The figures this Shiek person has are far to corporate sounding for my liking!!!
I MUST also say that back in 2004 rage sent me a list of what they had played since 1993!
Guru, you have listed MANY times what has been played.
I just sent rage a list from 1993 to 2004 of what they have played AGAIN!
Look, if they have played one episode back in 1995 then up to a point fair enough. But things that have been played twice to 3 or 4 times is just RIDICULOUS!
Maybe if ABC1 played Countdown once a week late at night instead of an old b & w film we wouldn't be so anal.
People don't get that we have to wait a whole 12 months each years for episodes of Countdown.
Where has all the passion gone in in 2011????
If Rage actually played every episode of Countdown they could, without repeats, it would still be an exercise that would take 11 years at 20 episodes per year.
If they only show 5-6 new ones per year, as they do now, it will be nearly 50 years before they all get aired, and I'll be about 90 by then if I am still going. I'll probably be blind and deaf so I couldn't enjoy it anyhow.
Troy is looking for lost Countdowns on old recordings. There are actually episodes that we know exist in the ABC archives that we won't ever get to see, let alone worry about what may have survived in other places.
If there are episodes we know that exist in the ABC archives then WHY won't they play them ? ! ? !
And I agree, if we want to see all the un played Countdown's I will be fricking dead by then if they keep up with Countdown repeats which rage have played over and over again!
If only the ABC decided to use all that dead time on ABC 2 and 3, when the stations close for the night, to play Countdown etc
Here, Here ...
I don't understand it at all.
Then we wouldn't have to bother with rage at all
I've been saying that for ages now - I know for a fact that there is definately an audience out there desperate to see archival material such as Countdown, etc and yet the TV stations don't play them??
Really gets me why they don't. Not only because of a viewing issue but of a preservation one as well - making digital copies of old shows ensures they'll be around for decades to come.
Sadly like most of us here I don't have the power to do that but I hope someone with enough sense in TV land will.
I'll stop rambling - but I hope people like Troy and others find some unaired and 'lost' Countdowns on tapes this year which would be fantastic for all fans of the show.
Have to agree with all involved in the discussion here. There seem to be some misinformed corporate types (possibly encouraged by Rage staff) who post under these mysterious monikers in the message boards. I detect a common thread - the aim of these mysterious posters is to -
1. Ask Jason to stop complaining too much in the message boards.
2. Defend the showing of pure garbage such as Recovery & 10:30 slop. "Fans" of these shows - what fans??
3. Defend repeating shows based on some loose argument that they had have not been screened in 10 years or so. More like could not be bothered checking what has been shown and what has not.
Yes - the message boards are dominated by a few passionate Countdown fans - but again, Rage has 11 months of the year to play its wall-to-wall Triple J drivel, is it too much to devote just one month to a few non-repeated Countdowns? The hip-hop fans, Triple J nutters & Justin Bieber look-alikes tend to be either lurking on Twitter, Facebook or down at the beach on holidays at this time of the year with bits of modern technology poking out of every body part. That is not spending too much time watching Rage especially in January when that ultimate terminally uncool, daggy "Countdown" is on.
On another note, one small defence for the Rage team -I am pleased to see some attempt at variety in the playlists last week and this week - I think the Rage team is trying too hard to please more than everyone. Most 60's afficiondos that I know (and I am a fan myself) did not even know Dig We Must was even screened last week on Rage!!
As for the claim that Rage has 850,000 viewers - Yes -and I am Molly Meldrums toilet seat.
> 2. Defend the showing of pure garbage such as
> Recovery & 10:30 slop. "Fans" of these shows - what
I think I saw one or 2 (no more) post on Rage's facebook page that they liked the airing of these shows last year. I guess such types are more inclined to use facebook/twitter than the message board, but you're right, I haven't seen anyone beg for particular episodes of these shows.
Fancy 'TheSheik154' saying that rage shows rage repeated episodes because the first time there may have been problems with the screening? It's the total opposite - rage always get it wrong the next time they show it - edits, stuffing up on screen ratios and placing songs over existing ones (ie the end of 10th year anniversary '84 episode). This also includes the repeat of the August '82 episode.
I hope 'TheSheik154' isn't a regular/contributor on this forum!
I think the main reason re: stretching/technical issues compared to the 90's is the advent of widescreen/digital TVs.
Widescreen TVs became really popular in 99/00 and that led in turn to people wanting better picture quality to match their screens - leading to the digital age we are in now.
Quite frankly while these items have improved how shows look, in many ways the broadcasting quality of airing them have been absolutely abysmal.
I totally agree with airing and preserving Countdowns - and that goes for all of the old shows left sitting on the shelves in TV stations just deteriorating until no-one can see them.
I've droned on about all this before, but the sooner TV stations wake up to themselves and air these classics that I know everyone wants to see the better!!
Does anyone know much about Digital Betacam? Maybe it's like DAT where it's still digital despite having a 'tape' element?
In relation to TheShiek154, the idea that he might in fact be someone associated with the Rage team is an interesting one.
A local politican got into hotwater here in Tassie when he got his brother to ring up and agree with some policy he had devised on ABC radio. It's happened elsewhere (in relation to inner city road reform in Sydney as well).
If that's the case, they must be rattled on a couple of fronts (the watermark, program selection etc)
so my feeling is we need to put the pressure on!
So agreed! We get a precious 5 retro shows and then basically 11 months of crap! More effort needs to be put in.
I'm not going to get on my high horse about what I want them to play, or what I think should be played...but I have been SO dissapointed this year so far! WASTE OF TIME!
I wonder if 'Retro Man' is another candidate? I was just reading the highly amusing thread where he clashes with the highly logical and fully thought out arguments of Guru Bob.
He's either a plant or indeed the intellectual equivalent of a Miss World Contestant.
I kept visualising Bob trying to talk sense into a brick wall and then doing the only thing possible, walking away from the 'debate'.
I'd like to see three hours of 60's & 70's material myself but if it isn't there, it seems a wasted effort just ******** about it. What's that old saying about wishing in one hand and ****ting in the other and seeing which one gets filled up first?!
One way to know may be to watch over the next couple of years if some of those 70s eps mentioned actually do get repeated. This could be a way of drumming up sympathy for those of us who aren't the privelleged few (ie. those too lazy to trade or too young to remember material already repeated ad nauseum).
I did have a minor run in with some peanut Retro Man who appears to be an intellectual midget.
He questioned why I would suggest 1.5 hours to 60's/70's (which is a lot more than Rage have actually been playing) and 4.5 hours to 80's/90's ABC TV show footage. I couldn't get the message across that rage simply don't have access to a lot of old material but that he should try suggesting specific requests and if they do have it they may be able to show it.
He did actually manage that and seemed quite self satisfied. Maybe he wanted me to check and tick his homework, I'm not sure. I couldn't be bothered responding as I have seen pond slime that is able to articulate itself more coherently.
He then hit a mental blank and decided to request repeating 1970's Countdowns, but then found that I had written, in another earlier unrelated thread, that I don't care what Rage play if only they can avoid repeating the stuff shown previously on Retro. He stated he took offense that I was laying down the law on what should be played, although I had actually just said what shouldn't be played - Repeats.
This is something I will continue to argue. Obviously if the Rage crew and Retro Man are a cross section of society, and what we have to deal with in our request to stop showing repeated episodes, then I guess we will just keep on having to throw peanuts to monkeys and end up with Retro shows like the ones we are receiving.
It's funny that he says he has watched Rage for years yet hasn't seemed to notice retro January, even though it is now into its 18th year and he missed all the 70's shows and countless repeats. Only "the privileged few" have seen them? - it's on free to air TV, anyone can watch, surely he would know how to turn the TV on? Perhaps he had been held in an institute for the mentally handicapped and they weren't allowed to watch TV there.
I decided to find another brick wall to bang my head into as stupidity can only be dealt with for so long. I think Retro Man is now holding discussions with himself, another sign of mental disturbance.
Actually if you read RETRO MANS comments on the new thread "o god more boring countdowns this week end" started by Maz on the rage forum he makes a lot of sense to be honest.
Actually he contradicts himself a lot.
End Of The Decade 16/12/79 and 25/11/79 are 2 episodes Rage have shown from the 70's (and repeated for the umpteenth time). 23/8/80 was an episode featuring 1970's Countdown performances. That is 1/15th approx of all surviving 70's and related Countdowns shown just this year alone, so at the rate that Rage are playing them they will still be going through all the 70's episodes every 15 years. For episodes from the 80's they are averaging about 70-80 years getting through them all. Doing the maths on that is fairly easy.
Hitscene (1970), Hippies With Money - Everly Brothers (1971), Rolling Stones concert (1972), Kinks concert (1979), Bangladesh concert (1975 or 1971), Renee Geyer at the 1975 Music Awards, GTK on William Shakespeare, Stealers Wheel/Gerry Rafferty. What decade was that material from???? No doubt there will be plenty of Sherbet this week, and what decade was that from?
The only thing he makes sense on is asking for more Hitscenes, which I suggested as well when I had said they should play 2 every week along with 3 GTKs (and the few remaining Flashez) which only takes 90 minutes each week but he didn't like that. The ABC don't have much else from the 70's as in general individual clips, particularly from obscure artists - but despite being told Retro Man doesn't want to hear that. Most of the older 70's clips they play are taken from GTK episodes anyhow as they don't have that big a library for that period, which both Brett and myself tried to explain but Retro Man refuses to take in this information.
He says he was watching the ABC back in the 70's with various programs so why hasn't he been watching Rage Retro for the last 18 years instead of asking for repeats all the time. These peanuts need to pay more attention or take advice given to them on board.
Who are you anyhow Jimmy? I've never seen any posts from "Jimmy" here before. How did you just happen find this site to make that observation, sounds like a stooge comment.
Rage have played proportionately the amount of 70's material this year as they are able according to what they have. Uninformed comments and statements just drag the conversation down. I would post this on the Rage forum in answer to him but he is incapable of comprehending the written English word - you can't help those who won't accept it.
The only thing I complain about are repeats, and I complained about the 1984 repeated episode as well. I don't care what era Rage play during Retro but if there is 1000 hours of footage in the archives and Retro goes for 25-30 hours each year I see repeats as a waste of valuable retro time. I will continue to argue against repeats but I have never argued against the period that the music comes from. I actually suggested that Retro Man should list the clips he wants to see, which he has done - no one has told him that it was a bad choice, Brett just said that they are very unlikely to exist. Retro Man with his limited capacity for understanding the English language seems to assume that people have said don't play his choices - read the threads, no one has done that.
He also requests something one week and expects it to be played the next. He's obviously very new to Rage as he would know it doesn't happen like that. I have suggested items I know exist (Countdown 1/8/82 for example) for over 5 years with no luck so far
Mr Guru no offence but you do sprout on a bit.I think if you actually reread your posts you will know what I mean.Retro man it seems to me does not know what songs rage have he is merely requesting some it looks like in the hope of some being played.I say fair enough and if you actually did the maths I think you will find that time given to the eighties far outweighs the time given to the seventies.Facto!!
It looks like He is merely requesting songs rage may have in their catalogue.He makes this quite clear but it seems hes getting the Spanish inquisition from you..
Boy like I said no offence but you really do sprout on a lot.
If people want to see seventies Countdowns then they are all going to be repeats.Then Rage will unfortunately for you have no choice but to repeat from the limited supply they have or is this even too simple for you to understand.Its commonsense mate.
It's a fact that those like Guru and I have knowledge. And he has been loyal to this Forum and the rage one for many years. Listen and learn!
Hi Jimmy - I tried to list which of Retro Mans large song list the Rage library is likely to have and which they are not but my posting didn't get past the Rage guestbook moderators by the look of it. It was a long posting so it may have exceeded their character limits.
I am a big 70's fan myself Jimmy with the biggest collection of clips from the 60's and 70's of probably anyone in the known universe so I am well qualified to make comment. Rage has its own "Red Book" which is the "library" the guest programmers get to view when choosing their song line-ups. The ABC archives has a much greater selection of music clips again, but not all is in transmission format, so some conversions have to take place before the material even gets shown on Rage.
There is at most 3 to 4 songs in that list from the 70's that Retroman posted that the Rage library even have the remotest possibilty of having. I personally hope they do show those this week.
I am a massive 60s and 70s fan Jimmy - I personally prefer that era to the 80's. There is no Boys Club in here mate - just a lot of passionate Countdown fans whose personal taste is more 80's than 70's for many of the posters. Everyone is different in here mate - me and Gurubob love our sport, in particular football - but Jason who runs the forums here - despises it - we don't argue about it - we just make comments and have gentle digs at each other and move on. No-one gets nasty about it.
Many posters (including Gurubob) also have an appreciation of older music - and you can read the forums and see evidence of this - and that is why the discussions are always interesting in here. We often agree to disagree about things. That is what forums are about. I loved the 1960 episode of Six Oclock they showed on Saturday night as well - and many in here probably hated it. That is their right just as it is my right to love it!!
It may look like an "exclusive" club from an outsiders viewpoint, and some of us long term posters in here may get frustrated if someone demonstrates a lack of knowledge both here and in the Rage guestbook - but believe me - that is not the case at all.
I must admit I did not like Retromans response to my posting in the Rage guestbook but as I came across as a bit of a "smart-arse" in my first response (which I definitely am not) I can understand his frustrations a bit.
If Retromans listing has the intention of giving the Rage team some song ideas that is great, but don't be disappointed if they cannot come up with the goods as I mentioned in the Rage guestbook.
I am also a great fan of Hitscene mate - as Gurubob said - I wish they would play more. I have made many arguments over the years in the Rage guestbook along those lines. We definitely do not get anywwhere near enough of that show or GTK.
As explained elsewhere, the vast majority of 1970's Countdownw were wiped in the early 1980''s. It is a tragedy - everyone agrees with that sentiment. This is the reason more 80's episodes are shown than 1970's. It is that simple.
Good on you Brett
Now how can I lay my hands on some of those 60s 70s clips you have??
Not too easily I am afraid - mainly because of work getting in the way of all my music hobbies. Trying to maintain around 5,000 DVD's, at least that many videotapes and 60,000 vinyl records causes headaches. And too many storage fees.
At the end of the day, I will not try to take anyones side here - we each have our own personal tastes and music preferences. I love the late 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's and have thousands of records and DVD's from all those eras - but if you pushed me I would tell you I like the 60's the most - that is the era that really paved the way for modern music. And try collecting music shows and clips from that era. Could send a person insane!!
This is a post left by Jim on the Rage forum;
I just thought that I would comment on the situation of non playing of seventies programs and videos .I have been reading with interest the way it seems that any music suggestion other than one that involves a eighties show or video is met with some trepidation.
Especially noticed the bullying tactics of Bob the Guru?? ,who by the way seems to think that anybody who requests seventies countdowns or in fact the rage crew if they choose to play one is a mental midget.(INTERESTING!)
Now if the repeated seventies countdowns are the only way some of us 50 ish aged people can get to see some older music on free tv then what are we supposed to do? According to this Bob we should just disappear and let them only show what he suggests .Also if somebody requests music videos from the seventies they should be able to do so without being subjected to bullying. Trying to ridicule anybody who does not know what music rage stocks in their archives seems unreasonable. So this is how new guests get treated when they come to this site.If somebody does not know what music rage has in their music archives and they request something that rage don't have it then would simply not get played. So it makes sense to me to request a whole list of songs in the hope that rage does in fact have some and would play them if requested.
Needless to say I sent back a 'polite' reply requesting he refrain from such outrageous character attacks - I was quite furious reading it I can tell you.
Enough negativity - be thankful we only have to put up with such people once a year.......
Patrick my friend calling people mental midgets is in fact a character assassination itself.
To hassle somebody over songs requests is just stupid.
All this fuffel over song choice is rediculous
Bob I could not read your whole post like I said you do go on.
Fact is that you did bully Retro man telling him to"Go watch the 70's clips on you tube"Telling him you dont want repeats of 70's Countdown.So basically telling him to get lost.Like your running the whole show.
Im afraid thats how I see it.
This Forum has always been a happy place and I won't tolerate fighting on here!
Forget "RetroMan" e.t.c...
You're a LEGEND, PERIOD!
No need to defend yourself over such people who talk utter crap
Jason and Guru Im not arguing Im just defending.
Refreshing to see a short post from Bob
Looks like the truth hurt this time
Okay then lets leave this subject alone then
You are free to use this board BUT repeated attacks against Guru and boasting about the truth e.t.c... is getting out of hand.
PLEASE STOP and get back to the music please!
Rage surely should not have published that post accusing guru of being a "bully boy". I assumed personal attacks would be against their code of conduct?
I see Retro Man and Jimmy are still going on with their lies and misrepresentations.
The following is the message that is being referred to, which I posted on the "Music videos between episodes of Countdown etc." thread
"I would be very happy for Rage to show 60's material, but before saying that 90 minutes should be 60's I would do some research. I don't know what footage rage have among the 30,000 odd clips in their library as they don't release that to us.
So if I were you I would check online what sort of DVDs are available for your favourite artists, and check YouTube as well as to what sort of clips there are out there. Then if you have a favourite song, say Rolf Harris - Two Little Boys, and you couldn't find that anywhere, then ask the Rage crew if they could play it either via their requests option or when an appropriate programming moment (Wildcard, Retro etc) comes up. You would have more chance of it seeing daylight that way."
That is a direct cut and paste job, check it out yourselves. That's being a bully boy?
Clearly I haven't told anyone to not request anything and to watch YouTube instead, but what can you expect from people who can't read.
We deal with these part time Rage watchers every year - there'll be a new batch next year. Best to just let them stumble around in the dark in the future than offer any assistance.
Let's move on, this week's retro is looking great and I hope they include that 1975 GTK on Ariel for the Harvey tribute that I suggested. That's right Jimmy, I suggested a 1975 show after doing some research - how about that.
You tell them Guru! Your knowledge and assistance is always appreciated by us regulars who value your opinions - keep them coming my friend!
This is my last post on this subject as I object to being called a liar.
This is what RETRO man posted first after Bob did not want equal time given to the 70's a direct cut and paste of Retros posting
I agree Bob about fairness
But to be REALLY fair would mean equal time for
60's to 70's and 80's to 90's including music clips not just old music shows.
So that would be
about 3 hours for 60's to 70's
and of course 3 hours for 80's to 90's.
There you go Rage team a fair proposition indeed
Very good Bob when you choose to take things out order and context mate.
Firstly you did try to get rid of Mr Retro when he requested 70's.
You told him this first up
Retro is only interesting when they show archival footage of ABC programs - if you just want common clips then buy a DVD, you will even avoid a pointless watermark and you won't have to be up at 5am.
I cannot argue with your basic maths skills - 6 divided by 2 is 3. I am sure anyone in Grade 1 could have told me the same. I am surprised you didn't suggest 90 minutes for each decade but that is a bit like Miss Universe models suggesting world peace is a good idea, very obvious but little thought behind it.
What I was suggesting is that if individuals put forward programming suggestions, that they put a little thought into it and not just make an obvious uninformed statement.
Then only later you said this
So if I were you I would check online what sort of DVDs are available for your favourite artists, and check YouTube as well as to what sort of clips there are out there.
This is what you said to this bloke who only wanted equal time to all eras...GO BUY A DVD!! The rest is just contempt for him when you consider your first up reaction to somebody who disagreed with you.
Just face it you dont want repeats period so you will do anything to ensure this does not happen.
I am warning you. I want this ENDED and NOW!
I can actually delete this post right now and am very tempted to!
I would also do anything so that rage don't repeat episodes as well whether 70s or 80s!
No more trouble here with Guru or anyone who has been active on this Forum, I AM VERY SERIOUS!
Look Jason I apologise to you.But why did you not say to Bob to stop?
I surely have a right to defend myself... this is the end of this matter.
Thank You for the apology BUT please everyone be respectful to each other!
Guru has stopped and you are dragging it up again.
The fact of the matter is that ANYONE who voice's there opinion to rage to NOT repeat Countdown episodes is a winner to me.
I want as MANY un played episodes to be preserved and not rott. In the last few years I have seen some 80s unplayed episodes which are getting bad like the one with Carol pope from 1982 last year.
I want these COuntdown's saved and the only way this will happen is if rage play as many un repeated episodes as possible!
Once again I agree its just sheer stupidity to let these episodes rot to death....but thats the mentality of younger generations these days it seems
Keep pestering them about a full dedicated show on abc2