Message from moderator, NOT good news at all!


Many of you have noted and complained about the ABC1 watermark that has been displayed on rage intermittently over the past three weeks. It’s original inclusion was an error resulting in a change of transmission procedure, but there has since been a decision by Television to include it permanently, as it is with all other ABC programs to maintain consistency across the network. We have noted your objections, and there are lots of discussions happening now regarding watermarking. We’ll keep you posted on our progress.

Yes, sadly it looks like it could well be here to stay !
Hopefully they may be able to resolve something as a result of all their discussions.
Surely they can't just ignore the numerous complaints from unhappy Rage viewers ?

Anyway, if not, Rage will never be the same again and will definitely suffer as a result of this stupid decision....

That's dreadful news - Rage will lose audiences for sure.

Although one can't but help wonder whether this is a ploy by management to get the show to lose viewers and have an excuse to axe it?

Obviously the Rage team are doing what they can to prevent the Logo from appearing - with the dozens of messages already flooding the forum hopefully backing up their case to be logo-free.

I just shudder at what the Countdowns will be like in January - I guess we should be grateful we've had 17 years worth of Countdowns logo free thus far, but still.......

A very sad day for Rage and its viewers

Almost makes me wonder whether it's even worth watching/recording Rage anymore.

I still don't understand why a supposedly non-commercial, taxpayer-funded TV station has to constantly advertise itself through every program.

I can only take comfort in knowing that I've already got a large collection of many of the music videos I want in a watermark-free state.

RIP Rage

If this doesn't get resolved, they should have one of their obituary screens are at the start of the next program:

In Memory of
When Rage was worth watching
1987-2010

I totally agree.

This is the end of an era.

I posted on rage saying that I will NOT post on there ever again and will not watch rage anymore unless the Logo is removed.

It's weird to think I won't watch rage anymore, hmmmm. I just can't, it's terrible. Thank goodness I have enjoyed decades of watching Logo free and I have a vast collection of Countdown's, Rock Arena's and video clips from rage.

Wild Card 4 would have been HELL with the Logo. I am not going to request any Countdown's this December as what is the point, hideous!

Luckily THE top list of Countdown's I want I have logo free, phew!

I fear for Rage's future as a result of what's happened.You only need to look at what happened to Countdown after the whole CDPTV concept came into effect.

Did anyone follow Jericho when it was on channel 10?

CBS axed Jericho in the U.S. at the end of its first season, its fan base were so peaved the fan base became organised and arranged several tonnes of nuts to be sent to CBS in protest.

CBS caved and funded the production of an entire 2nd season of Jericho.

I was wondering if it were worthwhile to organise something similar, perhaps send tonnes of mail containing ABC logos or something?

The Moderator's are going to be loving this ABC 1 Logo as they won't have to put up with my endless requests during January and during the year as I won't be requesting anything as this means me wanting copies of them. And I do NOT want copies of Countdown with an ABC 1 logo, I hope they play full on 70s Countdown's so that way I won't care!

R.I.P rage and January month, Outta there!

Here's a glimpse at the new rage:

I cross my fingers that rage play HEAPS of RECOVERY in january as it's such a CRAP show just like the new rage format!

Wow the watermark issue has opened up an absolute storm in the Rage forum - and here of course.

The whole thing is really sad and didn't need to happen and Rage will lose viewers as a result (which may be the intention of TV management, who knows).

I bet the people who decided this were ones who grew up watching the show but are now spoiling it for current and future viewers.

I also reckon we'll now get plenty of Countdowns during January - what's the bet that NO Recovery episodes are shown next year???

Ticks me off when 'those upstairs' think they know what's best for everyone when they most certainly DO NOT!

to think this all came about due to an error! and now they want to keep it??? Not good.

In my opinion, rage died in 2006 when they axed the Top 50. But hey, what can I say, there are just too many f@#kwits these days who love to fix something that's not broken. I question do they do it to add another notch in their belt...to make it look like they have done something great in their job and can put it down on their resume? Once again, f@#kwits and I experience this all the time at work.

Moderator update:

"We are still waiting for a decision to be finalised. All comments, complaints, and feedback from this forum are being passed on."

I don't want to add to the watermark issue as it is all a bit negative and depressing, but I had read somewhere that someone mentioned that Video Hits didn't have a watermark and neither did ABC3.

On Saturday morning I tuned in to Video Hits and there was definitely a watermark there, and also decided to check out Round The Twist on ABC3 and it is even worse than rage as it has a red logo watermark.

I had never watched Round The Twist as I was 20 when it aired in 1989, but as this is the only retro Australian TV that the ABC show, besides Mother & Son which gets a run every year, it's worth a look. I reckon I would have enjoyed it if I had been about 12 at the time.

As far as I can work out there is a watermark on everything on every channel - even Channel 31 community broadcast. The only things that don't have watermarks are adverts. The only way to avoid watermarks is to stop watching TV.

This is a really depressing state of affairs. The only benefit we have in Australia is that we have free to air TV. In many countries there is no such thing. Most countries in Europe require you to have a license to receive TV. At least I don't have to pay for a watermark that I don't want. Thank god I don't have Pay TV and fork out my hard earned for watermarks.

Let's hope the ABC come to their senses and return Rage to it's former glory. It has killed their Message Board and this forum has also quietened down which is sad, considering how it normally got busy here as we headed towards Retro January. It feels like there has been a death in the family.

Unfortunately, I think the chances of the ABC 1 Watermark leaving rage is about as likely as a time machine being invented :-(

It has TOTALLY killed rage, the rage Forum and has made it a bit quite here. Though I think my Forum here is a bit more busy that the rage Forum which is literally DEAD on the music discussion. Only discussions there is our dislike for the Watermark.

Usually by October I am posting lists for January, but it's not really interesting me which is making me very sad as I literally live on this planet for January :-(

The whole situation is unbelievably sad and could have been avoided.

While I can only agree with what everyone in here and in the Rage forum have said I'm still keen on Retro January - if only for the fact that the ABC is the only channel anywhere that will show complete Countdowns.

So with or without the watermark those who want to see such episodes can still complain but have no choice in whatever the ABC decide to put on screen as it's the only place where they'll be shown.

I certainly don't like it as I know everyone else doesn't but what choice is there apart from simply not watching.?

But I've certainly noticed that 99% of the discussion in the Rage forum is all about the watermark where only 6 months ago it was alive with talk about music -which is what the forum is all about.

Only a handful of requests have been made for Retro January so far - and usually by now there are at least a dozen....I can only wait with baited breath as to what it'll be like in a few months time......

Patrick: "Only a handful of requests have been made for Retro January so far - and usually by now there are at least a dozen"....

At least you may get all the Episodes you want as i msot certainly will not be requesting anything.

I am SO glad that rage have played many of my Countdown requests over the years, especially over the past 4 years, PHEEEEW!

John
Are you talking about the Video Hits that appears on Channel 10 on weekend mornings? I had another look and it is definitely still there - as is Dylan Lewis, not sure which is worse - at least on Channel 10 Melbourne metro area. Maybe it doesn't appear on a regional Channel 10 relay which have their own logos. Which broadcast are you watching?

I wish you all the best in your fight against this blemish, it is a truly noble and worthy battle.

Bob
Im watching in Tasmania but that should make no difference it should be the same broadcast.Channel Ten have their watermark on every other show except their musuc shows especially on Sundays Hit list and benchwarmers.

I think the best way to combat the watermark is to flood the RAGE site with complaints and not to make any retro requests until the blue menace has gone.

John
If you are watching Benchwarmers then you are watching Southern Cross (or it's Tasmanian equivalent - Tasmanian Digital Television) which is the regional channel affiliated with Channel 10. Most of their programming is identical to Metro Channel 10 but there are some differences, Benchwarmers Oz Made is one of them. It is shown only on Southern Cross 9-10am Sunday mornings, as in Metro Channel 10 we get Video Hits from 8:30-10am Sunday mornings. If you check the Video Hits website you will find that they have Saturday and Sunday programming, as follows, and obviously you won't get the Sunday broadcast as Southern Cross will show Hit Rater and Benchwarmers:

Video Hits programming for November
Sat 30/10/10 - The Nervo Twins
Sun 31/10/10 - Spoooky Halloween Show!
Sat 06/11/10 - ARIA AWARDS Oz Music Weekend
Sun 07/11/10 - ARIA AWARDS Oz Music Weekend
Sat 13/11/10 - Stan Walker
Sun 14/11/10 - Mike Posner
Sat 20/11/10 - Michael Clarke
Sun 21/11/10 - Dance Tribute to Michael Jackson
Sat 27/11/10 - Tinie Tempah
Sun 28/11/10 - Jamiroquai

Living on the outskirts of Melbourne I get the Channel 10 metro broadcast, which certainly has its logo on every broadcast, including Video Hits. Obviously Southern Cross doesn't follow this if you are getting some programs without the watermark, probably only a matter of time though.

Broadcasts are different throughout Australia as there is local regional programming/content as well, particularly for news services. The advertising is also totally controlled by the region it is shown in - we don't get Chickenfeed Bargain Stores adverts in Melbourne but you may in Tasmania as that is where they are based. It is not one central broadcast that is identical across the entire country.

If you leave a message on the rage forum that there are no watermark logos on Video Hits and the rage moderator decides to check this out by watching Video Hits in Sydney metro they will see a logo and will wonder what you are talking about.

Where I live every single program on every station has a watermark logo. I don't have pay tv but when I did it was even worse on there, which is one of the reasons that I got rid of it because of the overbearing watermarks, logos and pop ups.

I hate the watermark and was thankful that for years Rage had avoided it but I can see no chance of ABC management removing it as it would only benefit the viewer who records and keeps copies of programs and not the broadcaster. They don't care about the viewer's preferences as it is their way of putting a copyright logo on their programming content.

I am sure that you don't just watch rage but had also recorded it and kept copies of clips (possibly even uploading them onto YouTube) and due to the prevalence of this happening it is why we are getting logos and watermarks everywhere. How are ABC shops going to sell DVDs if everyone records it off free to air? - it is purely a business decision. The record companies and artists actually prefer that logos appear as it protects their own copyrighted material to some extent as they get no royalties from people taping their material for nothing off TV.

As such I accept that we will be stuck with this abomination. As your hatred of the watermark is so severe I presume you don't even watch TV anyhow - or are you protesting to every channel about every show having watermarks? I didn't think so.

It is ironic that when there were so many great music shows on TV in the 80's the cost of video tapes was prohibitive as they were about $10 each then (which is about $30-$40 in today's terms) and now that the technology is cheap, the programming and watermarks is crap.

I will continue to suggest programs for retro rage in January and will definitely be watching it as this is the only format that I can get it in. You are free to do as you please but don't tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing based on your own personal issues on this matter.

John
Just checked wikipedia and it says the following:

"Southern Cross Ten's programming schedule is almost identical to that of its metropolitan counterpart, Network Ten, with some differences. Notably, Infomercials are shown in place of Judge Judy during the day and in place of other programs overnight. As well as this, locally produced programming such as Hook, Line and Sinker, Country Matters, Hit List TV, Landed Music, The Benchwarmers Oz Made and The Hit Rater.com are also shown on the network.

Tasmanian Digital Television, part-owned by Macquarie, follows a schedule similar to that of Southern Cross Ten."

Maybe TDT, which I presume you are receiving, is semi independent and that is why some shows don't have a logo. Rage is part of a national program and does not fall under the same jurisdiction.

Bob

I get your drift.I am not telling you what to do.I understand your opinion of the watermark.All I am saying is that if we want to have any chance of removing this watermark from RAGE the best way to do it is to stick together.

You sound like your justifying the watermark on RAGE. The shows philosophy has always been to be interference free.

There has been many a suggestion to the RAGE TEAM and management that by merely having the RAGE symbol come up identifies the content as the ABC'S.I dont want to repeat all of the comments on the RAGE site about the watermark ideas .Most of them are very valid constructive ideas.

Anyway Bob I LOVE my music I hate the music videos being destroyed by a blue blob....

The ABC have a CHARTER to promote the arts.This charter is the CONSTITUTION of the ABC. Serious stuff. (Ill let everybody read between the lines on this one .....)

The introduction of the watermark has caused many viewers to no longer watch rage( read all the comments on the RAGE site not just in the Watermark section )The introduction of the watermark has caused a net loss in viewers this means that the ABC is failing in meeting this charter.If people are no longer watching the clips old and new ones...how can the ABC be promoting the industry properly if they are upsetting people and people are turning the show off.

This is why I say we must stick together.
This is the only chance we have to reverse this horrible decision.

We are trying our best to do something about it and we need help.I dont want to say any more...there is a RAGE thread that talks about the ABC going against its charter.. this will shed some light about the current situation

John
Under no circumstances would I ever want to justify logos as I detest any visual interference with the program I am watching due to its distracting nature. I enjoyed a number of shows on Pay TV but got rid of it due to logos so I think that should be evidence enough of my stance. I am sure that you, CJ and many others who are actively voicing their displeasure also don't have Foxtel due to the logo issues.

I was just making a comment that you have to understand how ABC management and legal departments relate to this issue. A friend of mine had taken on the ABC legal department once and they are stubborn to the point where they will wear you down until you lose your will or ability to continue the fight. Even if they are in the wrong they will draw you into a stalemate situation.

The ABC is a huge government run industry so you will need to have considerable resources on your side if you were to seriously take the fight up to them. Your main benefit is that we are a democracy so you do at least have the right to attempt to fight this issue.

The ABC probably does have a charter when it comes to promoting the arts - I have not read it but certainly believe you - but that does not over-ride their belief in the necessity to place their copyright logo/watermark on material that they broadcast as they are still promoting the arts. As far as they are concerned that is not interference. I am sure the Rage crew do not like the logo either but this decision comes from much higher up.

Rage may want to be free of interference but in reality they have never actually done that as the Rage logo and song title appear on the clips so they have never been clean clips as such. They should have had those prior to the clip if they actually wanted to be interference free.

The ABC is not a ratings driven organisation. I have no idea how many people used to watch Rage and what the numbers are now and if there is a significant change. Being in an overnight slot they would never have been high anyhow so I doubt a slight change would worry management. Every music show, at least on the major stations in the mainland capitals, has watermarks so it is not like we can dessert one show and start watching another to make an active protest - and they know it. All the free to air TV stations work together, as you will have noticed with the roll out of digital TV, and the new channels that they have created.

To use an analogy, the watermark is a bit like rabbits or canetoads in Australia. There were none here before they were introduced but now they are impossible to get rid of. Watermarks now appear ubiquitously across all TV broadcasts due to technologies that are in place.

I wish you the best of luck but it is not a fight that you are going to be able to win. The ABC will fob you off with generic replies and time wasting to the point where they will destroy your spirit on this issue. There are only about 50 names on the petition, there would need to be at least 50,000 for the ABC to bother to listen, and even then you don't have an argument that they would find valid for the removal of the watermark.

I will never defend or justify watermarks, I am just telling you how it is. I hate it but it is a fact of life and I will just have to make the best out of it. I am just being a realist and therefore as I have no other way of accessing ABC material such as Countdown, as you certainly can't buy it, then I will be limited to viewing it in the format they choose.

The only power I have is in submitting suggestions for items that they may consider showing, which I intend to do from time to time. By doing so I am not supporting the watermark but my ability to view some material that I have no other way of obtaining.

Bob

I think you are making this a lot bigger than it is.The introduction of the watermark was not a conscience business decision by ABC management.

It was brought about due to a mistake in the New Media Hub transmission.Then Management decided to keep it for "consistency"

Nobody is taking anybody to court.

We are simply protesting by means that are within our reach.

If nobody complains and just takes a negative attitude and does nothing then nothing will change as simple as that.....and I have found the best way to do this in any situation is peope power....... 50,000 people never visit the RAGE site so 50 people on a petition are a good representation from a cross section of viewers that bother to go to the Rage site.


So the more people that complain the better it is for this cause. Simple.Whether this will cause change who knows but at least some have tried!!

Call me a pessimist or cynical but I find it hard to believe their spin when they stated that the logo appeared accidentally and they decided to keep it - if it wasn't meant to be there then it would have been taken off again. It was about as unlikely as some old guy phoning them up stating he didn't know what station he was watching because there was no logo - makes you wonder how he knew who to phone up or how he navigated channels in the pre-logo era.

The crew at Rage had done a great job at keeping the logo off but management (who are highly improbable to be watching Rage) either found out, they had a change in management or they did a general review/audit and that's why we have it.

Obviously the ABC are employing the time-wasting/delay tactics I had alluded to earlier or we would have had an answer out of them by now. It only takes 10 minutes to make a decision based upon the policies that you have and to implement those, so why after nearly 6 months do we still not have an answer - clearly because their intention is to keep the skidmark and wait for protest to wither away.

You are very correct in observing that my lack of action (besides adding my name to the petition at your behest) will bring no change while there is a possibility that you may succeed. Those actions may be emanating from our different perceptions of the spin that we are getting from the ABC.

I have only attempted to convey the likely scenario of the situation and my resultant beliefs and actions as you have kept dragging me into the debate (I was a weak fence sitter on the Rage Messageboard and my eyesight has been questioned here when I see logos on Video Hits).

Having done so I neither have the time nor inclination to take this matter any further but I wish you the very best of luck.

Nobodys asking you to take anything further Guru.Nobodys debating you or your eyesite.Obviously Tasmanian channel 10 is different to Sydneys...Im glad you informed me of this ...thankyou.
You are entitled to your opinion about what ever you like.But I am just trying to inform the other readers of this forum about what happened.The comments I make are not necessarily directed at you.

The ABC did start using a new broadcasting system or company called MEDIA Hub .They did introduce by mistake the watermark to RAGE.
I have been following this story since the beginning.

I dont know why they are taking so long to make a final decision about the watermark ,one can only speculate.

Some people are trying to get this decision reversed.Like I say if People do nothing, nothing will change.

The fact is the more people that complain the better it is.

The following is a quote from the Moderator at RAGE


ABC (Moderator)
Date/Time 02 Nov 2010 2:51:54pm
Subject Discussions about the ABC1 Watermark continue
"We realise that it is frustrating having no definite answers regarding your concerns with the ABC1 watermark.

Please understand that the reason this process is taking so long is that is isn’t just about rage, it’s about all four ABC channels, so there are a lot of factors being considered.

As we have said before, we will let you all know when a decision has been reached."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So this is the current situation...if you can please add your voice to complain about the watermark at the RAGE site or direct to ABC complaints ...it can only do some good to let them know that we still are not happy about it.

I disagree. It was clearly a MediaHub stuff-up, as it occurred the first week after ABC was brought live to air by MediaHub. Then it was taken off the night after. The next week, the watermark appeared for the first few hours of Friday night's rage, before vanishing again.

The first half of this week's Media Watch program was devoted to stuff-ups that have occurred, and are continuing to occur, across the ABC's various channels. Things have become so bad that a program was frozen for half an hour the other week with just a still appearing on the screen, and at one point another channel (Win from memory) was mistakenly airing the ABC's programs for half an hour! A former employee of MediaHub that the ABC spoke to commented that there have been 5 years' worth of transmission erorrs across the ABC in the 4.5 months MediaHub has been in effect. Therefore I believe that the watermark's initial appearance was another MediaHub stuff-up. Furthermore, it appears that nobody is now viewing the content of the ABC as it goes to air - hence why it's taking so long for them to correct errors when they occur.

Predictably, the ABC head honcho Media Watch asked to comment said that he believes there have been "improvements" in the ABC's broadcasting since MediaHub came into effect. The host of Media Watched asked why MediaHub's staff have not been disciplined or sacked because of all the transmission issues.

Sadly, this is what you get when a corporation tries to save a few dollars by 'outsourcing'

Personally, I think the watermark has remained because it's 'too hard' for a staff member at MediaHub to press the on/off switch when rage begins and when it ends. Seriously! Judging by the number of transmission errors since MediaHub have been at the reigns, I honestly think this would be too taxing a task to ask of them. Also it's probably inconvenient for a staff member to be up at the hours rage starts to press the button. Nobody seems to be monitoring Rage in real time as it airs, so this is why it's in the 'too hard' basket. Maybe there will be a possibility of ABC taking the watermark off rage if they accept/realise that the station has gone to $hit since they've outsourced its transmission.

I sincerely hope that you are right and it is fixed in time for Retro which is now less than 2 months away. Don't care if they don't fix it for this week with hip hop rap crap special.

One can only hope it get's fixed by January!

I can't believe I ahven't requested ANY COuntdown Episodes. That Watermark just puts me off toooo much.

I may consider requesting 1 or 2 as part of my January religion!

I have been watching HOURS and HOURS of COuntdown tonight, it has been HEAVEN!

I must admit to being quite shocked at how scarce its been on the Countdown requests front this year.

As far as I can tell it's only been Guru and myself that have really made any genuine requests this year -apart from that it's been rather barren.

Personally I don't feel the watermark will be gone by January - if it hasn't gone in the last 4 months then I doubt it'll suddenly go away in the next 2 - as much as I wish it would.

As I've said earlier, I bet that Recovery won't be shown in January now that the watermark is here - I'd be suprised if it was....

Yeah Patrick, I suggested they play wall to wall Recovery in retro month if the watermark stays - that way we won't be as disappointed by good footage being ruined by a watermark. Being born in the late 70s though, I don't mind *some* of the stuff that aired on Recovery - but 3 hours of it with poor hosting and stupid non-music segments in between is pure torture.

If we really want the watermark to go we need to stop requesting stuff, and keep signing petitions and complaining.

People need to be consistent in the message they are sending to rage.

Hi everyone,

I too am dismayed to find the ABC1 watermark staying there during Rage - it's distracting and quite annoying, especially during a music video where it's primarily in darkness. It really stands out.

The other thing I'm concerned about especially with retro month not far away is the fact Rage is now being played out via Mediahub. Black screens, frozen video and a whole bunch of other things seem to happen a lot, and with monotonous regularity. I'd really hate for them to be having difficulties in the middle of Countdown! This isn't a 10 second break in transmission when a breakdown happens, it goes on for several minutes - and knowing how Rage is quite tightly formatted, anything that's not running to time is dropped for the "next event" in the schedule. They've dropped video clips before and I hope a whole Countdown episode is not dropped for time reasons as it's going to air.

So that's two things - the watermark, and the various problems Mediahub are currently having. 5 saturdays this coming January too, let's just hope all are error-free. It's probably a given these teething troubles and stuff like that can take a while to sort out. Roll on retro month but I can't see next year's going by without at least one on-air fault brought to you by Mediahub.

It did disappear for a few seconds during the Models special on Sat. They're just teasing us.

Thw Watermark dissapeared for a few seconds during the Models special on Sat?????

At what point? ! didn't notice... Please advise!

Pity it didn't disappear when "In Memory Of James Freud 1959-2010" came onscreen-a total lack of respect in my books.

The watermark disappeared for a grand total of 10 seconds during Big On Love. This could be an Adelaide thing because the Rage forum was full of complaints about a scrollbar during the show a few weeks ago, but it didn't happen here. Go figure!

Wow!!!!...lets try for 30 mins watermark free next time, then build up to total removal before and after retro

Just checked video hits this morning around about 10:50 and they were playing videos by Mark Ronson, followed by Michael Jackson, and there definitely was a channel 10 watermark on the lower right corner, and I'm from Sydney.

Also I tape the Retro hour this morning between 10:00 and 11:00, and am trying to figure out if they have also shrunk the watermark. It seems to be decreased by about 25 percent? I'm sure it looks a bit smaller, can anyone please confirm?