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Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

Above what Mike ? No Durant's above 75 and its 119 inch wb as is 70. The 1930 - 32 are 112 wb for most with 619 Durant, E 618 / E 670 Frontenac's the dropped frame at 109 wb. 618 was biggest at 115 wb. Also all those have the new body style and sure look out of place on a LOCO. As you say the B22 is the longest at 123 1/2 wb.

Maybe a Flint body if one could fine one. E-80 was 120 wb for 5 passenger and 130 for 7 passenger. All the rest of the Flint's are too short

Yes the Lycoming LOCO's had Scheber S3 or Stromberg 00-2 carbs 8-80, 8-86, 8-88. I've been working with Phil Peters on all carbs used 1921 - 1934 on our cars so Zenith can tell Phil the new replacement carbs, and a few LOCO's have been a stumbling block only. So little info out there on LOCO's and few remain to check info. As I was telling Christopher I was so close but no cigar on Cliff Durant's 90 up for auction. Supposed to be all orig etc etc. Contacted the auction place to find out what Stromberg carb was on it. They contacted the owner selling it. Yes the 90 orig had a Stromberg but some old time mechanic, now deceased, changed the carb and owner didn't get orig back. No idea what Stromberg. Terje in Norway has a pic of the LOCO own 6 cyl engine sent from some museum in the USA. Until I saw Cliffs engine, we were now able to say the pic is of a LOCO 90 engine. Another pic he has the museum said was LOCO, isn't. Correct pic appears to have a Stromberg OX-2 because the mounting flange is 90 degrees to the normal type flange. That OX-2 was also used on a few Flints, which has me leaning to the OX-2. But no proof I'm right.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

1927 locomobile to came equipped with a Stromberg 03 carburetor. It had 1 1/2 inch bore. series 00-2 came out in 1928-29 and had a bore of 1 1/4. series "o" series came out in 1919-1929. respectively 1" thru 1 1/2". The dash 3 indicates a 1 1/2 " bore. If your car has a wheeler-schebler carburetor mostly likely be a 1928. Alright, now I have to go in the garage and get dirty. I did look at frame size on the 8-80 vs e-55 flint and inside measurements are really close. 8-80 at battery box location is 31 1/4" and flint e-55 30 3/4". after cleaning the data plate, my flint does have a Stromberg carburetor and it is a dash 2. hope this helps.

Where Are You From? calif

Do You own a car built by Durant? 24 flint/27 locomobile

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

After some research on carburetors, I think that the 0x series (cross flange)can be used if it is a size 3. The only problem I see is linkage. Being cross mounted, the linkage to throttle and the oil pressure regulator has to have a adapter made. The only place I see to mount adapter is off the flange. Not impossible, but I think it can be done. phil: If we can put a zenith carburetor on 8-80 it has to have the throttle lever on engine side because the throttle and oil pressure regulator and linked. The linkage for both are adaptable. And of course, it has to be a size 3 (1 1/2" bore). :)

Where Are You From? calif

Do You own a car built by Durant? 24 flint/27 locomobile

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

Locomobile from Jon's site The Carburetor Shop where I got some info. Lance on some. Dykes Book also confirmed Stromberg on the 90 but not what one. Jon doesn't know either. I noted Jon's list is missing 1929 8-86, 8-88 and 6-90 Just like he's missing the Canadian Durant's 611, 618 614 but has a 1932 619 which is strange as Lansing closed Aug 1931 and we sure didn't make it. 1931 Fronty was basically a continuation of the 619 Durant. In ad's here the 1931 Fronty was dubbed the 1931 and half 619.

1921 6 525 48 Penberthy
1922 6 525 48 Locomobile
1923 6 525 VIII Penberthy
1924 6 525 48 Penberthy
1925 6 525 48 Penberthy
1925 8 199 Junior Stromberg OX-2
1926 6 372 90 Stromberg
1926 6 525 48 Penberthy
1926 8 199 Junior Stromberg OX-2
1927 6 525 48 Penberthy
1927 8 199 Junior Stromberg OX-2
1927 8 247 70 (W/CONTINENTAL) Schebler S-2
1927 8 299 80 (W/LYCOMING) Schebler S-3
1928 6 525 48 Penberthy
1928 8 247 70 (W/CONTINENTAL) Schebler S-2
1928 8 299 80 (LYCOMING) Stromberg OO-2
1928 6 372 90 Stromberg
1929 6 525 48 Penberthy
1929 8 299 80 (LYCOMING) Stromberg OO-2

Here's a page on the Flint carbs with a Stromberg OX-2 with 90 degree flang.
 photo IMG 3_2.jpg

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

Boy are we having fun yet. From the previous list the 1923 loco model 48 series v111 6-525 was listed as a penberthy carburetor. I just saw a 1923 loco model 48 for sale and it had a ball carburetor. Did they come with both? This is the 3rd Durant era loco 48 that I saw and they all had a ball carburetor. As for the model 8-86 and 8-88, these cars never went into production. AS per reports, they were suppose to have a Stromberg 002 with 1 1/4 bore. My 1929 sevice repair manual list them. As for the 1927 model 70 I can confirm that is has a schebler model s-2 because, its on my bench being cleaned.

Where Are You From? calif

Do You own a car built by Durant? 24 flint/27 locomobile

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

Penberthy carburetor is a B&B 4 bolt carb. I can't find the page Terje sent me listing all cars 1923 ? 1921 ?and carbs used on them. It said Penberthy B&B for the 48.

I read somewhere Loco used parts only applicable to their cars, so jobbers couldn't substitute non Loco parts.

I suggested to Phil that the Loco models be dropped as far as Zenith carb, with so few existing and Zenith not supplying 4 bolt carbs like the 48 with Pemberthy B&B, and Lycoming also 4 bolt. The Jr 6 was a show car only with Conny 6 cyl 10P engine, so another dropped model. Doesn't leave many models other than Jr 8 AKA 8-66 with Conny 8P and OX-2, 8-70 10 S Conny with Scheber S-2 and the 8-90 own 6 cyl and Stromberg something.

Not that it has any bearing on this but Zenith can't supply the B22 Durant with side draft Rayfield carb, nor the C-600 Conny with downdraft Marvel, Think looking at my lists those are the only two Zenith can't replace other than the Loco 4 bolts.

Not sure about 8-68 and 8-88 as vin books have 2000 and up Jan 1 1929 to Mar 1929 plant closing. Might well be its the same as the fictitious 1932 621 / 622 Durant's with vins L 1001 to end Jan 1 1932 start date. Parts books carry parts for the 621 / 622 with 22A engine, yet US Durant aftermarkets all stop with 619. Since Lansing closed Aug 31 who produced the Lansing 32's. Bet Branham was informed of intended models long before they left the drawing board so they could get their books published at beginning of the year which is why Branham's info is not always correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomobile_Company_of_America
For 1929, a new 8-86 and 8-88 came out, but it was too late to save the company.

http://www.locomobilesociety.com/history.cfm
In 1929 the 8-88 was introduced, offered at $2,650. Without any substantial underwriting, and the stock market crash resulting in a disappearing market, Locomobile, along with many others, failed and in 1929 closed its doors forever. No known example of the 8-88 is known to exist.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

I found it! In my shop manual for the 1925 locomobile 48, it states that it has a Penberthy carburetor. but, in very small quotations (had to get glasses) said ball & ball. Also the illustration shows a 4 bolt pattern. For the 8-80, it is a 2 bolt pattern manifold attachment. I did give phil this measurement (center bolt hole to center bolt hole). Research is hard work. I'm going back in the garage and repair the rear seat section of my loco.

Where Are You From? calif

Do You own a car built by Durant? 24 flint/27 locomobile

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

Yep .. the 48's were all Pemberthy B&B and Billy just continued the 48 using the 1919 parts. Read that also. ""Sales of a basically unchanged Model 48 continued through 1923 and 1924, still using 1919 parts.""

Now did you see the AACA item on the 8-80

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/244452-locomobile-sawmill-power-unit/

This poor thing has the Lycoming with its 4 bolt carb. It also shows the engine plate with Loco on it HD24611.

""We recently found this cutoff Locomobile that was used to power a sawmill. It has a straight 8 with engine number HD24611. Has wire wheels and dual side mount brackets. Does anyone have engine number records or production numbers that would indicate what year this may be? We believe it to be 1928 or 1929""

""An old reference book I have states that the flathead 8 Lycoming engine was used by Locomobile in the 1927-29 Model 8-80 as well as in the 1929 Model 8-88."" Oops there's that non 8-88 mentioned again ha ha.

Then there's the owner of a 1927 8-80 who says ...""Pretty sure It’s a 27 Locomobile 8-80. I have one (my understanding 1 of 3 or 4 left in the world) It is sad that someone did that to the car you found, I hope it was crashed first and they bought it from a salvage for the sawmill."" and shows us pic's of his yellow coupe.

Hope Rick stops this darned putting letters / numbers to post anything. Perhaps by 3rd attempt it might work but don't count on it. And yes I check it matches what's shown upper / lower case letters. Very frustrating.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

Alright norm, I am going to take a crack at this poor locomobile. Early 1927 8-80 loco's productions (101-500) had a engine # of 4hlxxxxx. Mid production year had the engine # of hdlxxxxx. Late production years of 1928 had a engine # of hdxxxxx. I also noticed that the saw mill motor had a preheater for intake manifold. Wheels are wrong for car. Its supposed to have a hub that can be wrenched off. The gauges and vacuum tank are correct. That oil pressure regulator has a oil line connected to it. Early year models was linked to the throttle linkage. Regardless of the condition, parts are parts.

Where Are You From? calif

Do You own a car built by Durant? 24 flint/27 locomobile

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

Not sure you can see this. I have a 1928 Dykes and 1943 I picked up in the mid 60's. 1928 lists all the 1927 cars by 4 / 6 / 8 cyl and gives you a wealth of info. Model, engine used, wheelbase, bore and stoke, displacement, carb used, if pistons cast iron or aluminum, who made the ignition, who made the clutch, axles front and back, tire sizes etc etc. Three of the Loco's have cast iron pistons other has aluminum. Clutch is Borg and Beck. Ignition DeJon. This also has B&B for 48 carb, which I knew long ago. Unfortunately Dykes has little or no info on Billy's cars in rest of the book, they hardly get mention.

 photo IMG 3_0001.jpg

When I said about dropping Loco from Phil's list, that was months back and Phil has done that. I continued on my own trying to come up with missing Loco info for my two listings. One by engine type only, the other by car model Durant, Star, and so on.

About vehicles made or not the Co's put out brochures ahead of vehicles coming off the drawing board and those are also not always correct. I can think of one the 1933 Conny cars with 4 models but roadster not produced, yet its on the brochure. Another is an ad for a 613 Durant. No such thing, yet in the numbering system we go from 610 to 619 and space for a 613. Now we go the other way and no vins for a 633 nor any info on that model other than in the Leaside aftermarkets, yet two exist still and vins start L 1001 on the coupe vin plate, and L 1006 on the sedan. We can't get a handle at all on a 1930 - 32 ?? 416 Rugby only in the Leaside catalogues that used the W8 and again no vin info. Probably T 1001 and up, since trucks didn't get the alpha A - P like the cars did 1931 to 1933 at Dominion. Existing Rugby's 31 / 32 have T. Goodness knows what Dominion would have used on cars if the plant had continued and they ran out of alpha.

Like with Billy's empire more questions than answers in a number of cases.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

well, from that chart listed above it shows 8-80 having aluminum pistions and p b&b carburetor. From the car repair manual and phycally seeing them I know this to be false. I also have this book and the interchangeable parts book.

Where Are You From? calif

Do You own a car built by Durant? 24 flint/27 locomobile

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

Look again, Mike you are misreading the info. The 8-80 shows Stromberg carb and the P.B&B refers to Borg and Beck clutch. Next row down is Tranny with War which is Warner. Front axle shows Sal which is Salisbury axles.

What you don't see as the book pages are bigger than 8 1/2 x 11 scanner and give the various abbreviations used on all the pages for cars. Bottom of the page and you can see some on my attachment, and also right side of second page. Seems there are similar pages for truck and motorcycle but at 3:30 am in the morning I wasn't about to look those up. Couldn't sleep last night, probably worrying about surgery and medical problems, so at 1 am I got on the pc.

Registry Steve created has the Spec's on each model of all Billy's vehicles and off shoot Co's, year by year for that model, Vin ranges, body styles etc. Much the same as Terry's Durantcars but more info than Terry's and more accurate. Dykes matches what Steve has and Steve didn't use Dykes. I understand Steve has boxes of sales brochures where he can get some of the info, plus various vin books. Just like misinfo in the 60 / 70's, period books don't always match or are correct. I see lots of errors / omissions in Don's Bulbs 1937 online book for lenses / lights etc. Guide universal catalog #806 lamps and lamp parts.
Under Durant, page 61, 1931 / 32 lists models with (Canada Only) Depress Beam is correct for all Dominion vehicles 1931 - 33, but we didn't made 610, 612, 619. and 611 is missing .. Don't see 407 or 618 anywhere. Models shown 1929, 30, 31 lense is correct US / Can but none of those models came out in 1929. First one was 614 in Jan 1930. 615 / 616 are Rugby Trucks. Durant Truck the 617 was car only. Still a handy book to check things out what lenses fit what vehicles as long as you know the errors / omissions.


Found Chris a body yet he can adapt to a Loco frame ? Flint, Caddy, Packard, etc.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

Norm, did you say you might have found a body that might work?
Thanks
Chris

Where Are You From? Colorado

Do You own a car built by Durant? In the process of a purchase

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

No Chris .. I was asking Mike if he found one yet for you. Doesn't help with Governments US / Can trying to get vehicles off the road over X yrs old be it current or vintage and junk yards vanishing like melting snow, that had our cars. One of our Prairie Provinces won't even allow a car over 20 years be brought into the Province be it vintage or not.

There's a wrecking yard I have mentioned in Forum before, below Picton Ont who crushed 2000 cars in 2006 to keep the enviro boys away from his place, and one was a 1930 / 31 Durant sedan still on its wire wheels, rad, light's, engine I was sent a pic of taken 2005. You can see rows of square bodied cars rusting in the sun, now all gone. There was another yard below Smiths Falls a number of miles from me, where people would fly in to buy parts for their cars, you name it he had it. Star, Durant, Graham Paige, Ford T / A, Essex, Packard, etc etc. Rows of them. All crushed.

Like we say its a mighty tall order to find a body that might fit your frame / chassis. Its almost like you'd have to have one made like that TV program Restoration Garage that created the 1936 Bugatti Aérolithe from a 16 pic's only. It was all hand made in the shop and you watched its progress program to program, while they also restored other vehicles on the program. Don't know if we ever learned what the final millions cost was for this thing, but I wouldn't want it. Lots of hits in search for this Branford Ont shop.
http://the-guild-of-automotive-restorers.myshopify.com/

http://guildautorestore.com/

You might have to put a non Billy body on your chassis like Caddy, Packard, off some big car, if you knew it would fit.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

norm...your answer to carburetor for a model 90 is Stromberg type ox-3 equipped with a air cleaner. Cars numbered 33101 and upward.

Where Are You From? calif

Do You own a car built by Durant? 24 flint/27 locomobile

Re: 1928 8-80 sedan

Thanks Mike I will slot that in the chart right away. Strom OX-3 with 2 11/16 bolt hole CTC. 90 degrees to manifold.

Noted it also on my copy of the Registry info which we have air cleaner already noted.
Yes 33-101 to 33-33,284 1926, 33,285 to 33,430 1927, 33,431 and up 1928 / 29. 1929 built to order to Mar, factory closing.

Where Are You From? Ottawa Ont

Do You own a car built by Durant? Dominion built 1932 614 Sedan

 

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