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First day on the road, ran into issues.

It was my first day going out with the Durant M2. It was supposed to be fun, however, it turned into a long night.

I made it home, I hadn't really gone far. I just was going to get gas near my house, but unfortunately I live in the middle of a hill.

The largest issue didn't happen until after I had gotten gas. Coming back, the car was warm, and started to stall. It wasn't really overheating that I could tell, but something to do with it being warm seems to affecting the way the engine is running. I had flooded the engine trying to get up a small hill, and I had to wait a bit and start it again to get it to a parking lot to cool down. Once cool, it would run in first or second gear. Putting it into third however, it had no power and would die faster.

As it warms, it runs lower and lower, and if you put the gas peddle in, it stalls.
It's got a brand new zenith carburetor. Gas is getting to the carb fine, too much at times as it pours out when something goes awry with the driving.

It definitely happens as the engine warms (and it doesn't have to get too warm to happen) when it cools again, it will be fine to drive for a couple of blocks as long as you don't go up a hill or go too fast (third gear).

The other thing I noticed, the one time I had it in third, is there is a fairly large dead zone in the steering. When I am up at a little higher speed, I find myself correcting left and right a lot to keep the steering centered. I have to turn a fair bit left or right to get the steering to respond. (there is an area where it is easy to turn but doesn't feel like it's affecting steering.)

Anyway, I was lucky and limped it home. A 15 minute drive turned into 3 hours. At least I didn't have to get a tow truck in the end.

:)


Where Are You From? Langley BC

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yes - 1928 Durant M2

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

You are brave Gerald, I don't usually venture past my mail box on the first day.....The first thing that comes to mind is, are you running an electric fuel pump withought a fuel pressure regulator?...Also, you haven't mentioned if you have adjusted your new carburator, it may be adjusted way too rich and Is your choke set fully open?...Yes, a warm engine does require less fuel than a cold engine so a rich mixture could be your problem....Check to see if you can obtain a correct fuel mixture first, and make sure your ign timing is correct...An out of time camshaft could cause similar problems, but check first things first.

Slack in steering...Move your steering wheel to the right and left and check if the slack in your steering is from loose linkage like steering arm pins, ball joint, drag link, ect, If all is well then you will probably need to adjust your steering gear..

Where Are You From? Leavenworth, WA / Yuma, AZ

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yep

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

I am not sure brave or foolish but either way, it ended okay when it finally did end.

it's funny that you mention the fuel pump. Just yesterday a neighbour of mine installed one and ran into those issues. My car however is still using the vacuum tank system. It seems to supply gas well...too well. Only the idle was adjusted, though I will take a look. The timing internally was put back recently. We had the gears all out, and the crank case cover was off. We were replacing the gaskets. We moved it to top dead center and opened up the side panel to look at the valves. We had marked everything to put it back the same, and I checked the distributor was pointing at #1, it would go anywhere I guess if it hadn't been. It seems to run well to begin with, it's only when it starts to warm up that it starts to run rough (which doesn't seem to take too long.)

Today I will look for further adjustments for the carburetor today. I will let you know how that goes. I will just keep going around my complex until the thing dies I guess.
By Correct fuel mixture, you mean trial and error until it seems to be running properly?

Slack in steering, I will check those things.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will post again some time this weekend when I have tried these things out.

Gerald.

Where Are You From? Langley BC

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yes - 1928 Durant M2

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

Gearald, If your engine is running a rich enough mixture that will make your engine run rough than you should also see black smoke from the exhaust, if this is the case, than crank in your hi-speed jet when engine is running above an idle and see if that makes an improvement, Zenith Hi-speed jet has a "T" adjuster screw and is located in the Bowl, the Idle adjuster has a screw driver slot and is located in the neck (A little trial and error untill you are happy with it's performance).....My bigger concern is that you may have gotten your camshaft out of time and this of coarse will upset your vacuume, this may be the reason you are seeing raw gas coming from the throat of the carburator under certain conditions, you also mentioned that when the engine warms a little it will run rough, I am thinking that if your cam timing is out a couple of links that this may be compounded by the expansion of the valves when they warm.....It would be a good idea to put a vacuume guage on the engine and see what happens to your vacumme as the engine warms.....(Have you checked your valves to see if you have stem clearance?)

Just some thoughts, let us know what you find.

Where Are You From? Leavenworth, WA / Yuma, AZ

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yep

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

hello you may also check the condenser in the disributor,some times when they get hot they dont perform properly, dave

Where Are You From? so calif

Do You own a car built by Durant? 31 devaux 32 devaux

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

A long shot but check the cap on your gas tank to be sure the vent is open. If not, a vacuum will build in the tank until the "pump" can't pull out. When you stop, enough air will leak in and the car will start again.

Where Are You From? San Francisco Bay Area North

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1925 Star

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

If you are getting to much raw gas check that the carb float isn't sinking ( take out and shake it) or the needle valve isn't sealing.

Where Are You From? Ithaca NY

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

Thanks for the reply.

No black smoke, actually no smoke of any type really. It runs pretty smooth when it's running up until it warms up. Here's a video of my running it around the complex.
https://vimeo.com/132159998
It rattles because the camera was taped to the window. You can hear the engine though. (it stalls at about 8 minutes) I then turned it off.
It seems like it dumps more gas when it gets to the stalling point, especially with the air filter on.
Once it starts to stall, it gets harder to start until it won't start, and then when it cools off it's fine again. Though I don't think it's over heating really. I can still hold the radiator hose and it's only warm, not that hot.

Vacuum, luckily I do have a friend with this gauge who lives next door. I will try and see if I can get out this week and find out what's going on there.

If it's a timing issue, is this something that can be resolved by manually turning the distributor? It is supposed to have a spark advance lever I THINK... as there is the switch on the steering wheel, but no rig between the steering column and the distributor. I wouldn't know exactly how to judge it as it runs fine until it is stalling.

Timing: The timing was initially looked at. We had the crankcase off and put new gaskets in. We turned it to top dead center and checked the valves. The position of the engine seemed to match where we marked the chains and gears when it came off so it seemed like it probably was in the right position. We spent some time grumbling about the lack of indicator on the gears. There were a couple of circles but it was hard to tell what they were supposed to be pointing to so we did everything manually. It fires and starts smoothly though.

Gas dumping isn't a new issue. I thought originally it had something to do with the float in the carburetor, (before we serviced the chaincase gaskets) No matter what I tried I couldn't get it to stop dumping gas after it was shut off. So I got a new carburetor. Unfortunately it is still having that same issue, so I am thinking this may be something else.

THanks for the input

Where Are You From? Langley BC

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yes - 1928 Durant M2

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

That's an interesting thought. Sort of like a vapor lock. I will check that, I'm not sure where the vent is however. I guess if enough suction were to build up, maybe that's why the gas doesn't quite get to the engine, and when it's turned off, the engine isn't trying to suck it up anymore, the back pressure would pull the gas out the carburetor...that might be possible.

I am unfamiliar though where the vent is. If that's the issue, that would be I think I much easier fix.

I will check.
THanks

Where Are You From? Langley BC

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yes - 1928 Durant M2

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not much of a mechanic. Everything I am learning about cars is coming from working with this one.
How would I check the condenser on the distributor?

Thanks!

Where Are You From? Langley BC

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yes - 1928 Durant M2

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

I looked at the gas cap. I don't see any vents. Is that something that is supposed to be on the cap or the tank. The cap is solid metal and screws on tight. No holes.
 photo 20150701_095413_zpsqnmuq3ky.jpg
 photo 20150701_095421_zpsjmfi9lpu.jpg

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not much of a mechanic. Everything I am learning about cars is coming from working with this one.
How would I check the condenser on the distributor?

Thanks!

Where Are You From? Langley BC

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yes - 1928 Durant M2

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

That looks like a local fabricated cap, so you HAVE to have a vent for the fuel tank somewhere. Irregardless of your problem, provide a vent. One other note, perform ONLY one fix at a time and test the engine.
The easiest way to check the condenser without a test meter is to simply replace with a New condenser.

Where Are You From? Texarkana, Tx

Do You own a car built by Durant? several

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

Alright, so I took the cap off, put some wrap over and elasticed it on to the tank, and poked a hole in to it, then ran the car for a while. The car is still stalling when it warms up even with the hole in the gas covering. So I am guessing it's something else.

Where Are You From? Langley BC

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yes - 1928 Durant M2

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

One day a feel years ago our durant died and could not restart until it completely cooled down restarted right after a rain storm. I call and talked to Jeff Gillis, he told we to get the car started, run until hot then place my hand on the Rad.
and feel for hot and cold spots. This will tell you if the Rad is blocked
A block rad will cause it to over heat and cause the engine to die, and not restart
then when cooled down would restart. Another idea to try.

Where Are You From? Muskegon, Michigan is

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

Regardless of your current problem, you will need a hole in the gas cap. A sixteenth of an inch should be enough.

Many of these cars will drain gas out of the carburetor when shut off. Many of us have installed a shut of valve under the vacuum tank.

Another wild guess: When the engine gets hot, electrical components can break down most notably the induction coil. Like the condenser, the easiest way to check for this is a new coil. Napa carries a 6 volt coil for old VW's which works fine.

Similarly, I had a stalling issue that was solved by running a ground wire from the distributor case to the generator case. This stalling, however, was intermittent.

Vince

Where Are You From? San Francisco Bay Area North

Do You own a car built by Durant? 1925 Star

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

Gerald Feather
Thanks for the reply.

No black smoke, actually no smoke of any type really. It runs pretty smooth when it's running up until it warms up. Here's a video of my running it around the complex.
https://vimeo.com/132159998
It rattles because the camera was taped to the window. You can hear the engine though. (it stalls at about 8 minutes) I then turned it off.
It seems like it dumps more gas when it gets to the stalling point, especially with the air filter on.
Once it starts to stall, it gets harder to start until it won't start, and then when it cools off it's fine again. Though I don't think it's over heating really. I can still hold the radiator hose and it's only warm, not that hot.

Vacuum, luckily I do have a friend with this gauge who lives next door. I will try and see if I can get out this week and find out what's going on there.

If it's a timing issue, is this something that can be resolved by manually turning the distributor? It is supposed to have a spark advance lever I THINK... as there is the switch on the steering wheel, but no rig between the steering column and the distributor. I wouldn't know exactly how to judge it as it runs fine until it is stalling.

Timing: The timing was initially looked at. We had the crankcase off and put new gaskets in. We turned it to top dead center and checked the valves. The position of the engine seemed to match where we marked the chains and gears when it came off so it seemed like it probably was in the right position. We spent some time grumbling about the lack of indicator on the gears. There were a couple of circles but it was hard to tell what they were supposed to be pointing to so we did everything manually. It fires and starts smoothly though.

Gas dumping isn't a new issue. I thought originally it had something to do with the float in the carburetor, (before we serviced the chaincase gaskets) No matter what I tried I couldn't get it to stop dumping gas after it was shut off. So I got a new carburetor. Unfortunately it is still having that same issue, so I am thinking this may be something else.

THanks for the input


Going back through a few of your posts I see I missed this one with the video, and it has got me to thinking.....I had a problem with the vaccume can on my A-22 and I think what happened was that the float valve in my vaccume tank stuck/failed to trigger off during its off cycle and overfilled the vaccume tank and then raw gas was sucked directly into the intake manifold via the vaccume line and of coarse fludded the engine out and with lots of grey/white smoke out the exhaust...I was able to restart the engine after a period of time, when this happened the second time I installed and electric pump with regulator....Your vaccume tank may be something that you would want to look into.

Where Are You From? Leavenworth, WA / Yuma, AZ

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yep

Re: First day on the road, ran into issues.

Gearald...Heres's what I think is happening and could explain all your symptems....Your vacuum tank is malfunctioning, it is not shutting down properly at the top of it's fill cycle...You mentioned that you have 8 minutes of run time before the engine (warms up? or something else) and stalls...I am thinking that it takes 8 minutes for your vacuum tank to make a complete cycle from being overfilled from your previous failed cycle, to the time it fails at the top of it's next fill cycle...when your vaccum tank overfills to a point, raw gas will be sucked directly through the vacuum line into the engine and flooding the engine...The vacuum line enters the intake manifold directly above the carburator on a W-5, you mentioned that gas would drain back out of your carburator during shutdown...I am thinking that the gas is not draining from your carburator but through your carburator throat from the residual raw gas left in the intake manifold and vacuum line....Somehow the float valve must reset itself and after a while you are able to restart your engine and you are up and running good until the next cycle occures....I'm not up on vacuum tanks but a plugged vent, saturated float, broken float toggle spring,leaking valve are a few things that can go wrong...

Where Are You From? Leavenworth, WA / Yuma, AZ

Do You own a car built by Durant? Yep

 

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