Another vote on the side of not halving the CAT attack against the defenders on the slope. Is there anyone that feels that the attack should be halved? What about an CAT attack against a hilltop defender?

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I've seldom halved CAT attacks. The infantry AF are fairly weak & halving them frequently turns even a large attack into a waste of effort. There is a certain logic to halving a attacking piece that is in a clear hex (not a hilltop). Attacking uphill is tougher.

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I understand what you are saying. I take it that you would say that CAT are not halved in PB regardless of whether the defender is on a hill or a slope and the attacker is at a lower level. That would mean that the answer to the Q/A in the guide is probably not correct. That position would also make PB and PL consistent. Any other positions out there?

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I did not have the TEC with me wwhen I wrote my first reply. Looking at the TEC, the halving only applies to Direct Fire Attacks. TEC states:



(for hilltop) "One half attack strength for direct fire attacks except when on another hilltop hex."



(for slope)One half attack strength for direct fire attacks except when adjacent via-non-brown hex side."



So CAT attacks are always at full strength.

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I agree with you on the PL rules. Rule VII.H.2 says: "When a defender is on a slope, the attacking unit is not halved if the attacker is directly adjacent to the defender (regardless of elevation)" and then there is the usual brown hex side exception. I will tell you that I have had players tell me that since the lead in paragraph of section H references "direct fire" and then talks about special cases, that only in direct fire does the paragraph 2 exception apply and not to CAT (which is not DF). Paragraph 4 then says that "in all other situations...the attacking unit is halved." Is a CAT an "other situation"?

It is clear that the die roll modifiers are used for woods, etc.

What is not clear is the halving of the AF in PB when making a CAT from ground level against a defender on a slope. It seems to me that the rules require a halving of the AF for an attack by a unit on a slope against a defender on the hill (except for the example in the PB guide I mentioned)but not (based on the Q/A in the guide) when a CAT is made by a unit on ground level against a defender on a slope. In any case, it is another one of those areas that clarification between players is required each game. Anymore opinions out there?

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Well, looking at the PL rules, I would say they are not halved unless a brown hexside is between them IAW Rule H2: "When a defender is on a slope, the attacking unit is NOT halved if the attacker is directly adjacent to the defender.



It is followed by the exception of the brown hex side.



"Do terrain qualifications affect odds or die rolls in a CAT?" The answer is Yes!" This is general question and would mean that you do apply the -1 die roll if the enemy is in a woods or town hex. I think the more specific rule would apply to the slope to slope CAT.



Now I agree that it is odd that the hilltop defender does not get an advantage against the attacker coming up the slope. Maybe a modification to the exception to 2H could be (including orange hilltop hexside if defender is on the hilltop and all attackers are on a slope hex.)



Fred

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Replying to:

Since the issue I raised on IF in towns generated lots of discussion, I thought I would raise another issue that has been a problem over the years. The question is whether a CAT attack in PB is halved if the defender is on a slope and the attacker is in an adjacent ground level hex. I have played this one both ways depending on the opponent I was up against and his thoughts on this issue. I think the rules are unclear if you look at all the materials.

(1) There is no direct mention of this issue in the Close Assault section of the PB rules. (2)In the rules under Hill and Slope Defense Exceptions it says that " a unit attacking an enemy unit defending on a slope or hilltop, attacks at half attack factor". It then goes on to say that there are exceptions. Exception B states the "when a defender is on a slope, the attacking unit is not halved if the attacker is directly adjacent to the defender"...as long as there is no brown hex side between them. At this point it looks like the attack would not be halved unless it is taken that the above is not applicable to CAT. (3)On page 36 of the PB guide the first Q/A under Combat asks: "Do terrain qualifications affect odds or die rolls in a CAT?" The answer is Yes! and then there is a note that states that in PL only the die rolls are affected. I take the answer to mean that there is a halving of the AF as that is the only way to affect the odds. (4) Also in the PB guide on page 21 in the details on the "Example of Play" in the article on Blind PB there is a sentence that reads: "He rolls the close assault (odds are 5/8=1-2). The attack was by a russian rifle company on a slope against a German infantry platoon on a hilltop. That is a more dramitic situation than the one I am asking about and there is no halving of the attack strength of the Russian infantry!

So what is the answer? Is there a clear answer? In actuality it makes sense to me that an attack uphill is more difficult than one on even ground but afterall not everything in PB or any game is truly realistic. What the feeling out there? How are people playing this issue? Its worthy of discussion.

Fred:



I think the reason CAT attacks are not halved is the notionthat the actual fighting is occuring in the hex of the defender. The attacker could conceivably be fired upon by opportunity fire in the adjacent hex and if he survives it, enters the defenders hex inan attempt to oust him.

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Replying to:

Another vote on the side of not halving the CAT attack against the defenders on the slope. Is there anyone that feels that the attack should be halved? What about an CAT attack against a hilltop defender?

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Replying to:

I've seldom halved CAT attacks. The infantry AF are fairly weak & halving them frequently turns even a large attack into a waste of effort. There is a certain logic to halving a attacking piece that is in a clear hex (not a hilltop). Attacking uphill is tougher.

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Replying to:

I understand what you are saying. I take it that you would say that CAT are not halved in PB regardless of whether the defender is on a hill or a slope and the attacker is at a lower level. That would mean that the answer to the Q/A in the guide is probably not correct. That position would also make PB and PL consistent. Any other positions out there?

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Replying to:

I did not have the TEC with me wwhen I wrote my first reply. Looking at the TEC, the halving only applies to Direct Fire Attacks. TEC states:



(for hilltop) "One half attack strength for direct fire attacks except when on another hilltop hex."



(for slope)One half attack strength for direct fire attacks except when adjacent via-non-brown hex side."



So CAT attacks are always at full strength.

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Replying to:

I agree with you on the PL rules. Rule VII.H.2 says: "When a defender is on a slope, the attacking unit is not halved if the attacker is directly adjacent to the defender (regardless of elevation)" and then there is the usual brown hex side exception. I will tell you that I have had players tell me that since the lead in paragraph of section H references "direct fire" and then talks about special cases, that only in direct fire does the paragraph 2 exception apply and not to CAT (which is not DF). Paragraph 4 then says that "in all other situations...the attacking unit is halved." Is a CAT an "other situation"?

It is clear that the die roll modifiers are used for woods, etc.

What is not clear is the halving of the AF in PB when making a CAT from ground level against a defender on a slope. It seems to me that the rules require a halving of the AF for an attack by a unit on a slope against a defender on the hill (except for the example in the PB guide I mentioned)but not (based on the Q/A in the guide) when a CAT is made by a unit on ground level against a defender on a slope. In any case, it is another one of those areas that clarification between players is required each game. Anymore opinions out there?

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Replying to:

Well, looking at the PL rules, I would say they are not halved unless a brown hexside is between them IAW Rule H2: "When a defender is on a slope, the attacking unit is NOT halved if the attacker is directly adjacent to the defender.



It is followed by the exception of the brown hex side.



"Do terrain qualifications affect odds or die rolls in a CAT?" The answer is Yes!" This is general question and would mean that you do apply the -1 die roll if the enemy is in a woods or town hex. I think the more specific rule would apply to the slope to slope CAT.



Now I agree that it is odd that the hilltop defender does not get an advantage against the attacker coming up the slope. Maybe a modification to the exception to 2H could be (including orange hilltop hexside if defender is on the hilltop and all attackers are on a slope hex.)



Fred

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Replying to:

Since the issue I raised on IF in towns generated lots of discussion, I thought I would raise another issue that has been a problem over the years. The question is whether a CAT attack in PB is halved if the defender is on a slope and the attacker is in an adjacent ground level hex. I have played this one both ways depending on the opponent I was up against and his thoughts on this issue. I think the rules are unclear if you look at all the materials.

(1) There is no direct mention of this issue in the Close Assault section of the PB rules. (2)In the rules under Hill and Slope Defense Exceptions it says that " a unit attacking an enemy unit defending on a slope or hilltop, attacks at half attack factor". It then goes on to say that there are exceptions. Exception B states the "when a defender is on a slope, the attacking unit is not halved if the attacker is directly adjacent to the defender"...as long as there is no brown hex side between them. At this point it looks like the attack would not be halved unless it is taken that the above is not applicable to CAT. (3)On page 36 of the PB guide the first Q/A under Combat asks: "Do terrain qualifications affect odds or die rolls in a CAT?" The answer is Yes! and then there is a note that states that in PL only the die rolls are affected. I take the answer to mean that there is a halving of the AF as that is the only way to affect the odds. (4) Also in the PB guide on page 21 in the details on the "Example of Play" in the article on Blind PB there is a sentence that reads: "He rolls the close assault (odds are 5/8=1-2). The attack was by a russian rifle company on a slope against a German infantry platoon on a hilltop. That is a more dramitic situation than the one I am asking about and there is no halving of the attack strength of the Russian infantry!

So what is the answer? Is there a clear answer? In actuality it makes sense to me that an attack uphill is more difficult than one on even ground but afterall not everything in PB or any game is truly realistic. What the feeling out there? How are people playing this issue? Its worthy of discussion.