I was just wondering how everyone is handleing the whole rust issue.

R u charging extra for it. I have a hard time doing this since we really can't fix or stop the rust completly. Even with grinding it down and e-coating it is still not a 100% permanent fix, but yet I am spending my own time doing it. Plus if I try and charge and the customer says no and the windshield is out then what. If its rusty I can't put it in that way so then what. I see more and more rust from lack of priming everyday makes me sick!

You might make part of your procedures informing the customer that in the unlikely event that there is rust, steps need to be taken to attempt to ensure that the rust hopefully, won't work it's way through. Explain why it's needed and most people are willing to go with you. If not and they are just looking for a cheap, quick fix, maybe you don't want to do the job anyway. I know you aren't a mind reader and you can't predict rust, but, better safe than sorry. Just a thought.

If you assume that the potential customer knows as much about proper and safe installation procedures as you do, that is an incorrect and bogus assumption.

There are "slip-ins" and there are not "slip-ins" particularly if it is the second or more w/s installed after factory.

Put yourself in the customer's place and assume you know nothing.

You will then understand that they THINK that you are padding the job when, in fact, you are concerned about their safety instead of meeting cheap quotes from irresponsible and two-bit competitors.

There is plenty of literature out there right now that proves the perils of half-assed installations.

Print it out and let the customer read it.

Be prepared in the future and you will minimize that problem.

Jim and Glass Lady are right, NW IL.

There is plenty of literature on the subject, most recently in AGRR, but also in Auto Glass mags.

Educate your customers. Inform them of the potentials, disclose up front that your quotes do not include unpredictable items such as a poor previous installation or corrosion. All rules clearly state now that it cannot be ignored and/or must be dealt with.

If the customer insists that you install over rust, refuse to continue. It is rare when a consumer refuses to pay for corrosion treatment, most will thank you for saving their car at the least, and possibly for saving their lives at the most.

You cannot afford the multimillion dollar liabiity for installing over corrosion. MABEY they can live with it if you do install over rust, (or cause it for some people to read), and mabey they WON'T. Rarely does one expect you can spend a man hour or two working for free.

We have incorporated this into our biz and we get paid for it. By consumers, by insurers, both. Insurers realize eventually that corrosion treatment is a minimal cost that reduces their risk under the policy by millions. It's a shame, and possibly a crime, that networks aren't relating this required procedure to the insurers. Most consumers see it right away, because they quickly understand that you cannot bond to rust, or that rust will compromise the best bond in a short time.

If you can sell a consumer on a quality installation, then you can also show them the importance of a quality installation AND all of it's requrements, such as corrosion treatment.

Oh, and document everything you found, and everything you do, with pics. Much easier.

This is my problem with charging for rust treatment. I offer a lifetime guarantee on all my work, and if I can't repair something to what I consider a complete fix I don't charge or do the job at all. I have seen in the past to have those cases come back and haunt you later. So this brings me back to rust, we are not fixing anything only covering it up and making a better temporary bonding serface. Even grinding it down and using etch primer it will still rust through down the road. The major differance is now we are liable because we charged that customer to repair it. I hope I am coming accross right. Has anyone come up with a good discloser to get past the liability of the rust repair failing in the future.

I'm just happy that around here it is so dry that rust is nat a major problem. In the last 10 years I have seen one serious case of corrosion that a body shop had to take care of. All the rust we see here is surface corrosion that a wire wheel and a Dremel tool take care of no problem. Once we explain to the customer the steps we have to take and the potential downside if it is not rectified, they are all for paying extra. It all comes down to EDUCATION.

NW IL,

Please allow me to try to clarify.

Once you find rust beneath a WS, you are IN the liability boat. Period. You cannot escape this with the defense that you didn't cause it, or touch it. In fact, if you don't touch it, or document by use of a verbal or written "no warranty due to corrosion" disclaimer, you are much worse off than performing the proper procedures, again IMHNLO (and some attorney's opinion also). In that case you have fully disclosed to the consumer that you knew of a defect that would immediately, or in the near future, cripple the safety systems, and you did nothing.

If you ignore it, or disclose to the customer that it is there, and don't treat it by the now established procedures, you are returning the car to the customer in an unsafe condition. It may not be immediately unsafe, for corrosion not yet in the bond line, but it will become unsafe in a short period of time. By disclosing to the customer you knew, but did nothing, documents exactly that. Documenting that you did the procedures, but didn't charge for them, lends you no credibility to a reasonable person (on a jury perhaps) that you actually did the procedures, because few people in this world work for free.

The procedures, when performed correctly, have been proven to last many many years. Agreed, no one can be certain all corrosion is removed, short of a microscopic Xray or such, and even if you could be certain, the vehicle is being returned to a corrosive environment when it leaves your shop/care.

Also, bear in mind that at least one car mfg has condoned the corrosion treatment procedures, and I believe virtually all the adhesive mfgs have guidelines about them. You are standing on solid ground by performing the procedures, and doing everything for your customer to promote a safe and proper installation to place them back into a safe vehicle. All rules, AGRSS, ICAR, NGA, Adhesive mfgs, Carlite School, Private training companies, etc etc, all back your performing of the procedures. It simply is required.

It only makes sense that you would charge a reasonable fee for your services in this regard.

Your warranty is up to you. We have a limited lifetime warranty, and have vehicles back to our shop as many as 7 years later with no return of the corrosion.

There may not be a "cure for cancer" but this is as close as is humanly possible at this time. As new chemicals become available, this may change, and improve upon what is already out there.



HTH.

Just had a job today lost due to corrosion. After my pre-inspection I noticed that I would not be abled to perform a safe installation. The customer didn't care he just wants a new windshield. I called the insurance company and their responce was this is considered normal wear and tear and not their problem. Now even after educating my customer he is upset with me and I have lost the job. What bothers me most is someone else WILL DO IT and not think twice as they're laughing to the bank! No names mentioned, but it would not surprise me if the glass company that is financially conected to the network does it. I am sure you know the three letters I am refering to! I have yet to have an insurance company pay for any rust repair. How are you getting this through?

Put a rust disclaimer on your work order, do what you can if anything and have them.

Sign HereX______________________

Where are u in NW ILL?

Call Dale Malcolm at Dow Automotive. He has setup a corrosion treatment program that is very exciting and some shops are currently getting paid for the corrosion treatment.